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Quote:

Originally Posted by DaTruth (Post 818081)

OWS is not presenting a coherent message, and I suppose that is part of its charm to participants who feel they have an equal say in where OWS goes from here. But no organization can survive without any sort of hierarchy. Orders from the the generals at the top eventually make their way to the foot soldiers.

If OWS is a sustainable NATIONAL political movement, then you will see like-minded Democratic candidates in swing states embrace it next summer. Otherwise, it is going to be relegated to having influence in liberal districts and states. Remember, what plays in New York does not necessarily play in Little Rock. If OWS is viewed as a movement hijacked by liberal extremists, then don't count on independents siding with them over the Republicans.

You make valid points.

However, I think, as Antitrust has said, Occupy is clearly "not" a "liberal" movement, there are plenty of Libertarians (tons of Ron Paul supporters) along with Republicans, Dems, progressives, anarchists, etc. The vast majority are just average Americans - nurses, doctors, union workers, students, etc.

Regarding "the message" - the "message" has been very clear and coherent to anybody who has bothered to pay attention: our government has been corrupted by money, is owned by corporate interests, and the average voting American thus has little say in what happens any more, and has been very screwed over the past 40-50 years while the plutocracy has thrived. They want to change that.

I really don't see how anyone can miss this. The mainstream media has generally done a very poor job of presenting Occupy - but there is limitless factual information out there over the internet - anyone can get involved.

As far as "organization" or "government" of the Occupy movement, they have a very well-developed representative General Assembly process, they have close contacts between Occupies in different towns (Little Rock vs New York).

The paradigm of "one leader" being necessary is very successfully being refuted so far. You have to be willing to let go of the political labels of "Dem, Republican", etc.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cardus (Post 818080)

I recant: there must be not thousands, but MILLIONS in that picture!

MILLIONS!

Where did you protest, you occupier, you?

I actually happened to be watching the live feed when the Bloomberg stormtroopers busted in, and stayed with it for another couple hours. It was amazing to see that unfold live on the Ustream and Twitter, and Kos.

Then I sent them a $200 donation (see their website for the link, I'm sure you'll want to donate) to help OWS replace the destroyed computers, books and medical equipment :tro:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cardus (Post 818080)

I recant: there must be not thousands, but MILLIONS in that picture!

MILLIONS!

Where did you protest, you occupier, you?

ROR !! :tro:

Have you seen Fish lately ?

Tomorrow - Big Day for Occupy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cardus (Post 818091)

If the Dailykos is on the scene, then it is certainly not a liberal movement.:rolleyes:

If information was available about Occupy on Red State or Big Government, I'd be looking there :D

But yes, those godless hippies do tend to be more giving towards the rights of others - versus, say, Boehner, Cantor, McConnell :p Of course, the Ron Paulites are there, too. Republicans, Independents ...

Quote:

OccupyWallSt.org:

Tomorrow, Thursday November 17th, marks two months since the start of Occupy Wall Street as well as International Students Day. To commemorate this two month anniversary, Occupy Wall Street will take to the streets in celebration and in solidarity with people around the world participating in a massive global day of action in hundreds of cities.

7:00am — Shut Down Wall Street
We will gather in Liberty Square at 7:00am, before the ring of the Trading Floor Bell, to prepare to confront Wall Street with the stories of people on the frontlines of economic injustice.

3:00pm — Occupy the Subway
We will gather at 3:00pm at 16 central subway hubs and take our own stories to the trains, using the "People's Mic". Details here.

5:00pm — Take the Square, Festival of Lights on Brooklyn Bridge
At 5:00pm thousands will gather at Foley Square in solidarity with laborers demanding jobs to rebuild this country's infrastructure and economy. They will encircle City Hall and march across the Brooklyn Bridge, carrying thousands of handheld lights, as a festival of lights to celebrate two months of a new movement to reclaim our democracy.

There are events planned in numerous major cities:

In Boston, Detroit, Washington DC, Portland and Seattle, protesters, some allied with union workers and community groups, will march on high-profile bridges in order to highlight the problem of America's crumbling and underfunded infrastructure.

"We don't want to make this about police and protesters," said Stephen Squibb, an organiser with Occupy Boston, whose group will target the city's North Washington Street bridge. "It is about jobs and other things. That has been our message for two months and we are going to keep saying it," he added.

The range of activities across America spans a spectrum from the dramatic to the small-scale, including teach-ins, rallies and direct actions aimed at banks and corporations. In Portland, Oregon, protesters plan to target a city bridge and then try to organise flashmobs to go to local banks. In Detroit, protesters are marching from their camp downtown to the city's municipal centre, where they aim to highlight the brutal impact of government cuts on ordinary citizens.

[P]rotesters in Atlanta will hold events targeting two major corporations in the form of Home Depot and Verizon. In Las Vegas, protesters have vowed to set up an early morning encampment outside a federal building downtown and stay until police remove them. In Chicago, a major rally is planned with local union workers and community groups.

In Memphis, a "midnight march" is planned through the city centre. In Phoenix, local members of the movement are targeting the city's light rail network during the morning rush hour.

We are at a necessary evolution point in the Occupy movement. I say "necessary" for two reasons: one, because of the hard truth that cities around the nation simply cannot tolerate camping as a form of free speech, thus necessitating a response to "putting tents up" that is increasingly relying on tear gas, riot gear, and mass arrests.

Two, because they aren't listening. The government, Wall Street, the media: they simply aren't listening yet. Most press coverage revolves around which cities beat the holy hell out of which protestors on any given day or which senior citizen posed such a damn threat to the riot-gear-laden police that they needed to be pepper sprayed, but the underlying messages of income inequality, corporate corruption and a captured government are, unsurprisingly, still being stonewalled.

Mayor Michael Bloomberg doesn't want people camping in his park anymore. Fine, then: he will push the protests into taking another form. That's probably good for the movement, and probably is probably going to be worse for him.

More Occupy news:

* Federal prosecution of financial fraud is at a 20-year low. Now, let's reflect on that. The whole "meltdown of the economy due to massive frauds perpetrated by top financial firms" bit would, you would think, have resulted in lighting a fire under prosecutors of such fraud. Nope. A Twenty. Year. Low. In the last few years, prosecutions for financial fraud have dropped to about one third of what those numbers were in the 1990's.

So if you were thinking that all of the high-profile news about slap-on-the-wrist, no-fault-admitted settlements for foreclosure fraud, selling fraudulent derivatives and the like sounded like the government was going remarkably easy on instances of Wall Street fraud, congratulations: apparently, you're right.

* The New York Press Club is asking for an investigation into the harassment and arrests of reporters during yesterday's enforced media blackout during the eviction at Zuccotti. Bloomberg says such things are done "routinely", which either means he's a damn idiot or there's an even bigger story to be written about ongoing NYPD abuse of reporters.

* Most of the books from the confiscated Occupy Wall Street Library were damaged or destroyed, as well as other personal property:

“There are only about 25 boxes of books; many of the books are destroyed. Laptops here but destroyed. Can’t find tent or shelves.”

“Many books destroyed. Most equipment -and structures missing. . . most of library is missing (ALL of the reference section btw), damaged or destroyed. “

Remember, this was done because Bloomberg and the park owners were concerned about protesters possibly damaging the property. But screw you, protesters, we'll damage whatever the hell we want.

* From Salon, the headline sums it up:
"Daily News cheers Occupy Wall Street raid, until Daily News reporter is arrested"
Their reaction went from "Bravo" to calling the action "alarming" and calling their attorney. Funny how that works. Oh, and no word on whether that reporter still has a working laptop.

* New York City Councilman Ydanis Rodriguez says he was detained for over 17 hours after being arrested during the Occupy Wall Street eviction, and was denied access to his attorney until just before release.

* Continuing the theme of New York law enforcement treating everyone like dirt, all the time: private security calling people "faggots". Yes, there's video.

* Elsewhere in the nation, America's most successful political liar has a grumpy day:
http://thinkprogress.org/...

“Karl Rove is the architect of Occupy Iraq, the architect of Occupy Afghanistan!” yelled the demonstrators. Occupy Baltimore had infiltrated the crowd and began chanting against Rove. “Who gave you the right to occupy America?” asked Rove to the protesters [...]

Who gave them the "right" to occupy America? Thomas f---ing Jefferson, jackass.

* Occupy Cal drew an estimated crowd of 10,000 people to the UC Berkeley campus last night. More pics here.
* Occupy Atlanta working to help prevent a foreclosure.

* I've been looking for news on repercussions against officers who have been videotaped using excessive force against protesters: pepper spraying sitting people, shooting people at close range with rubber bullets or tear gas, using nightsticks on people who are quite obviously not resisting. Anyone see squat about such things? No? All right, just checking.

To keep up with Occupy related events, especially local actions and first-person accounts from our community, follow the Occupy Wall Street group and the Occupy Wall Street tag right here http://www.dailykos.com/

http://www.politickerny.com/2011/11/...y-wall-street/

* NY Press Club Demands Investigation Into Reporters Arrested at Occupy Wall Street
* Paul Newell: My Night In The #OWS Lock-Up
* Councilman Ydanis Rodriguez Arrested, Injured at Occupy Wall Street Raid
* Bloomberg Spokesman Slams Mayoral Aspirants Over Criticisms of Occupy Wall Street Raid
* Mayor Bloomberg Explains His Decision to Raid Occupy Wall Street

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riot (Post 818066)

Because he is a self-described, "Koch brotha by another motha". He and his campaign chief Block have long worked for the Koch brothers and their PAC. Everyone knows this - Cain even BRAGS about it, see above quote - Cain has run for Senator and President before. Who is keeping his campaign financed? Look at his campaign finance documents. Before Cain worked for the Koch brothers, he was (famously) lobbyist for the National Restaurant Association.

Cain is a wholly-owned corporate candidate. He is currently owned by the Koch brothers. And they are not even shy about saying that. Yet there are tons of American voters out there who mistakenly think Cain is some kind of magical "independent businessman" with no ties to Washington? Good grief, Cain himself brags on his Koch connection! He is proud of it!

Cain is what OWS is all about.

i don't expect him to win anyway, so i guess i just don't pay any attention to him.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig (Post 818098)

i don't expect him to win anyway, so i guess i just don't pay any attention to him.

Today, Newt is talking about a Gingrich-Cain ticket. I think that's the "book sales" tour.

Here is a fantastic video interview with the 84-year-old, Dorli, who was pepper sprayed at Occupy Seattle (along with some pretty damning police brutality pictures). She talks also about being in German/Austria in WW2, listening to Goebbles propaganda. Amazing stuff.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...v=ENfWJzXVD0Q#!

NYC/OWS protesters trying to shut down the subway system this morning. :tro:

Do these fools realize it is the 99% that utilize the train to get to work/school and the one percent either limo or fly in via helicopter? :zz:

They should do themselves a favor and stay in the private park except don't tell them they're living on land owned by a billion dollar real estate development firm.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dellinger63 (Post 818130)

Not to mention that they really are hurting a lot of small buisnesses that are in the downtown area.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riot (Post 818108)

http://news.yahoo.com/pregnant-teen-...113054448.html

"Pepper spray was deployed only against subjects who were either refusing a lawful order to disperse or engaging in assaultive behavior toward officers," Kappel wrote on the department's blog.

Kappel also noted that one man threw an "unknown liquid" at an officer's face and was arrested. The officer was not injured.

In another incident, Kappel said a 17-year-old woman swung a stick at an officer, and as police moved to arrest her, others tried to intervene on her behalf, prompting a blast of pepper spray.

Authorities arrested at least six people before quickly restoring order.

...now, i know it's fashionable these days to put all the onus on the police, but i don't know that to do so is telling the entire story. protesters have every right to do their thing. they don't however have the right to break the law. if they cross the line, there will be repercussions. i have to say that every time i've seen another headline blaring 'police attack' or something along those lines, when you read the article...the details explain just why they did what they did.
and as i said elsewhere, the police aren't the ones in control-the city leaders are. if they order the police to disperse a crowd, etc, they're going to do just that.

I can't wait to go downtown tomorrow and see if Occupy Roanoke has exceeded 25 people.:wf

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaTH716 (Post 818131)

Not to mention that they really are hurting a lot of small buisnesses that are in the downtown area.

Maybe...just maybe, this is a very selfish collection of individuals who just all happen to be in the same place. As opposed to an actual "movement".
Offer one $1MM cash to leave his friends behind and occupy some nice house/restaurant/piece of tail. See how quickly they would run.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig (Post 818136)

...now, i know it's fashionable these days to put all the onus on the police, but i don't know that to do so is telling the entire story.

It's fashionable when there are actual videos of what is going down.

For example, a cop pushed a protester off a 4' tall planter in Dallas. The police denied anything happened - until the police chief checked YouTube and saw citizen videos, the officer push the guy off for no reason. Officer is immediately suspended. Chief apologized to pushed guy.

Oakland police denied any culpability. Multiple videos show differently. ACLU filed police brutality charges against Oakland PD.

Berkely PD say they didn't do anything to protesters - but multiple videos show protesters standing still, and police rushing them and hitting in belly with truncheons.

You have to realize, that ABC, NBC, CBS, etc is NOT covering this. For example, right now, Occupy Wall Street is outside the NYSE. You can watch a no-audio helicopter view of some ants from WABC in NY, or you can march on the ground with the protesters, with Tim Pool, here, live for the day, with narration: http://www.ustream.tv/theother99#utm...medium=9488285

LOL - WABC is showing an empty Zuccotti park - but right now all the protesters are at the Stock Exchange, and it's only being shown on protester live cams.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dellinger63 (Post 818130)

No. They are not trying to "shut down the subway system". They are going to Occupy multiple stations, and ride trains, and try to talk to people about the movement.

At 5:00pm, Occupy across the country are going to occupy bridges, to try and stress the danger of our crumbling bridges, needed infrastructure repairs and jobs that could be created to repair them.

Of course, the MSM doesn't report any of this stuff accurately or in detail, really.

LOL - our media sucks

This is unbelievable - the protesters are now leaving Wall Street to regroup at Zuccotti, and the MSM isn't even showing it .... nothing to see here, just a bunch of dirty hippies, pay no attention sheeple ....

BBC is showing. Ustream is showing. US media? nothing.

40 arrests today in march to Wall Street. Police pushing and shoving. A retired Detroit police officer was arrested in uniform - the NYPD tried to get him to walk away, but he would not, and made them arrest him.

Tim Poole saw a cop pull out a baton and full-force rap a man in the femur, a man was just standing there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riot (Post 818154)

Could it be the main stream media caters to the main stream?

And that the main stream sees the protesters as a bunch of spoiled, whining brats attempting to assign blame for their failures on anyone but themselves?

Quote:

Originally Posted by dellinger63 (Post 818245)

The main stream media answers to the rich and powerful...not main stream America. This is the 60's all over, the "main stream" media actually did pay some attention to the Civil Rights Movement cause the Northern folks wanted to feel superior, but when it came to the Peace Movement, we heard the same crap as is coming from some on this board now...dirty, lazy hippies and cowards to boot.
It goes with the territory, challenge the powerful and their whores will attack you at every turn.

Quote:

Originally Posted by somerfrost (Post 818262)

The main stream media answers to the rich and powerful...not main stream America. This is the 60's all over, the "main stream" media actually did pay some attention to the Civil Rights Movement cause the Northern folks wanted to feel superior, but when it came to the Peace Movement, we heard the same crap as is coming from some on this board now...dirty, lazy hippies and cowards to boot.
It goes with the territory, challenge the powerful and their whores will attack you at every turn.

If that's the case, then how would you describe the coverage of Obama's run to the Presidency in 2008?