I don't use figs when I bet so what they run is of little concern to me. The only reason I brought them up is because PG mentioned them.

I hate Smiling Tiger and bet Euroears that day, but hell before that next start he was a total stud. I think Byk had him as Eclipse sprinter. TC was a bit wide in the Malibu also.

I'm bewildered as to Giant Oak suffering by general comparison in the analysis going on here. I'm going to assume that is a function of our complete unfamiliarity with horses staying around until they fully mature these days. There was a time when a horse that reached his peak at 5 or 6 was appreciated simply as a late developer and gleefully welcomed to the handicap ranks.

For those who have never seen one race much past their sophomore year, a horse doesn't reach physical maturity until age 4. It's odd that a horse would run a career best figure in his first start at age 5, (105 Beyer in Giant Oak's case), and be dismissed as fodder in a discussion trying to underwhelm Morning Line's foes.

I don't get it. Everyone bemoans horses taken to the shed too quickly, and yet when one stays around, Beyering 100+ in his last three races run between 9f-10f in traditionally serious Handicap Division races, he's scoffed at as an example of how bad the elder males are currently.

They are all bad Freddy. That is the point. You guys are getting excited because a horse had a dream trip and crushed Tweebster and Make Music For me.

I didnt realize you dont use figs. If Twirling Candy had run wire to wire and ran a huge fig it would not have mattered to me. In fact it is sort of more interesting that was able to sit off the pace and then kick clear. I realize he was hardly beating Formal Gold and Skip Away.

Of course you bet Euroears....your redboard aside, Smiling Tiger was a total stud before that?

:wf:wf

My point was they are all bad, but at least TC is winning races.

A dream trip for that horse is unpressed on a loose lead not galloping a half under restraint. This is the flaw I think many make. If that horse wanted too he could have run a bigger race by simply burying bad horses and running off.

Im sure me beting a first time GOAT is a lie.
Good way to deflect from the actual point though. Smiling Tiger won how many G1's last year? Where did he finish in the BC sprint?

It's probably because his last non DQ win before Saturday was in May of 2009, on the grass.

He is consistantly fast Freddy, though not blindingly so. He stays a route of ground at a high and level cruising speed. I'm not sure why you would require a Tiznow out of an A.P. Indy mare to be excruciatingly fast, but the BC Mile and the SAR Allowance win were both negative numbers for him on Thoro-Graph coming in, and Saturday's race will fall close to a -1 as well. (That would be a top for him.)

He might be getting good now, maybe he will be really good. Up to Saturday what had he done to make him any type of a player in this division? At the begining of last year he was just bad. He started the year running 3rd,5th,3rd,6th,4th and 5th in his first 6 races. Then maybe he got a little better, but he hangs badly twice, both times under 2-1 in the betting. Im not sure what about this horse made him any good coming into Saturday. Maybe now we can say he is OK because he won the Donn.
Not to mention his last win was about 2 years ago on grass.

I'm sure it is too. Glad we are in agreement.

He finished 3rd in the Sprint (behind Hamazing Destiny) and beat the mighty Supreme Summit and EZ's Gentlemen in his grade 1 wins last year. What a stud. Just because a race is a grade 1, doesn't mean it has any quality in it.

These are all very basic concepts.

Nice generalization horses get better with age? Giant Oaks a bum and needs the 4 horses on the lead to ding dong to suck on by. I am surprised at you Giant Oak? Tell me how many Pletcherized 3 year olds have come off the Derby trail to be Handicap animals? Should we expect I Want Revenge to season with age? What do you make of the 38 sec last 3f's?

A dream trip for every horse is unpressed galloping on a loose lead.

Love his guts and gameness how couldnt you. He is gorgeous colt and looks the part. Where is his fast race loosing to Datoka Phone at 30/1 or staying 9f's in front of a couple of cripples?

You must spend enough time on here to know that all horses are slow and nobody is any good at all. Even the ridiculously fast horses from the last ten years are often mocked for only beating that crops bad horses. There is no positivity whatsoever. Damn shame too, this is one fun sport.

Solid contribution. Thanks.

Yep hated Zenyatta, QR, Rachel, goldikova, Zarkava. Uncle Mo etc etc. Go away this isn't for you. Hoss, Byk, Rollo etc. can handle it from here

Twirling Candy
 

We were fortunate to get on the backstretch of Del Mar last August and were standing outside the Sadler barn when John came up to me and introduced himself. Told him that Hammerle had given our group passes and John pointed out the horses walking around the barnyard and then said do you want to see what a real racehorse looks like. He took us to the stall of Twirling Candy and said that he was the best horse that he had ever been around and compared him to having the physical quality of a Dwight Howard in the NBA. John then stated the only issue is a mental one with him and if TC could ever figure things out then the sky would be the limit....

It was a real treat for us and i will always remember John for his kindness and the time he spent in showing us around his barn.

Looks like TC is finally figuring things out on the mental side and i agree although he was visually very impressive this weekend it was against a field of less than stellar competitors.

I have a good feeling that John will ship TC outside of California during the Summer and Fall and hope that he does. It will be interesting to see how he fares against the older handicapping division back east.