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-   -   Summer Bird to Japan Cup Dirt (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32706)

pba1817 11-10-2009 03:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kasept
A reminder that trainers don't own these horses. Owners do. That's why they're called owners... The Jayaramans waited a long time to have a horse like this, put a lot of money into the game and want to enjoy going where you can go with horse like this. They were invited to Japan and think it would be a fun experience.

Runs them all over the place and shows no patience? That's comical. Summer Bird has been brilliantly managed by Ice start by start, bringing the horse into each venue three weeks early and honing him to terrific performances everywhere. He's thrived on the work and has gotten better as the year has gone on with each start. Even over the synthetic Saturday, as surface he wasn't supposed to handle and didn't really relish, he managed a 107 Beyer beaten three lengths by Zenyatta and a length by the 2 turf horses.

While I wouldn't make this trip if I owned him, no one can say a bad word about the decisions made by the connections up to now or how Tim Ice has handled the horse the 2009 3yo champion colt/gelding.
I am saying this is a stupid choice.. up until now they have done pretty dang good.

Why wasn't he supposed to handle or relish the surface at SA?

slotdirt 11-10-2009 03:51 PM
Trained on it early in his career and was unimpressive. Thought it was noteworthy that he was also considered for the turf. Sounds like these guys just really wanted to run in the Breeders Cup in some form or fashion.

Gander 11-10-2009 03:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CSC
Mine That Bird would be more interesting IMO.
Mine that Bird more interesting in the Cigar Mile than Summer Bird would be?
How do you figure that?
What is so interesting about this horse?

pba1817 11-10-2009 04:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gander
Mine that Bird more interesting in the Cigar Mile than Summer Bird would be?
How do you figure that?
What is so interesting about this horse?
Most interesting thing... how the trainer has had a broken foot for about 10 months.

Danzig 11-10-2009 04:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pba1817
You wont be saying that if come spring time and he is up the track in a few starts...
you strike when the iron is hot. if summer bird seems to have a race in him, they ought to go for it because there's no guarantee what next year will bring. i'd expect summer bird to be the forefront for handicap horses, but who knows?
hey, i got grief when i said nick zito was messing up keeping his three top two year old colts in the barn a few years back, rather than attempt the juvie. he said he wanted to save them for spring. i was told i didn't know as much as him.
none of his colts made the derby that spring.

pba1817 11-10-2009 05:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danzig
you strike when the iron is hot. if summer bird seems to have a race in him, they ought to go for it because there's no guarantee what next year will bring. i'd expect summer bird to be the forefront for handicap horses, but who knows?
hey, i got grief when i said nick zito was messing up keeping his three top two year old colts in the barn a few years back, rather than attempt the juvie. he said he wanted to save them for spring. i was told i didn't know as much as him.
none of his colts made the derby that spring.
Just out of curiosity, has any American runner ever ran good in the Japan Cup Dirt?? AND has any of the runners who ever went come back home to be the same horse?

parsixfarms 11-10-2009 05:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pba1817
Just out of curiosity, has any American runner ever ran good in the Japan Cup Dirt?? AND has any of the runners who ever went come back home to be the same horse?
Doug O'Neil won the race with Fleetstreet Dancer in 2004.

pba1817 11-10-2009 05:23 PM
That horse sucked..

Danzig 11-10-2009 05:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pba1817
Just out of curiosity, has any American runner ever ran good in the Japan Cup Dirt?? AND has any of the runners who ever went come back home to be the same horse?
the 'can he be the same' argument about shipping is overblown. euros ship over here for our races and return none the worse for wear-some like ouija board and high chaparral twice, but when one of ours leaves the country it's suddenly an issue. and some return better-lava man went over and ran like crap, and came back and won just like before the trip.

pba1817 11-10-2009 05:27 PM
It isn't an overblown issue if it is a horse YOU own or train... then its a big problem.

Over the years, the Euro's have obviously traveled much better than anyone else has...

Merlinsky 11-10-2009 05:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pba1817
It isn't an overblown issue if it is a horse YOU own or train... then its a big problem.

Over the years, the Euro's have obviously traveled much better than anyone else has...
Don't they just do more of it? Between the countries which are obviously much closer, or even just within their own countries. The segment during the BC about how Americans do it versus at least Britain, I can't remember if it was all Europe or not. They have the hills and the traveling from the trainer's place to the track and then back. Just that process I would think gets them used to it even if it's not several hours on a plane plus getting to act more like a horse during training, less hot house perhaps. That's the impression I got. Surely some of it's mental strain of a temperamental animal that doesn't do us any favors.

CSC 11-10-2009 10:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gander
Mine that Bird more interesting in the Cigar Mile than Summer Bird would be?
How do you figure that?
What is so interesting about this horse?
Off his last 2 poly races he could be dismissed at a price, I still think he could be a dangerous horse if he is ridden quietly and if he has a pace to run into... who knows maybe a mile is more his thing rather than a 1 1/4. He hasn't done much since the derby so maybe this is his time.

pba1817 11-11-2009 12:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CSC
Off his last 2 poly races he could be dismissed at a price, I still think he could be a dangerous horse if he is ridden quietly and if he has a pace to run into... who knows maybe a mile is more his thing rather than a 1 1/4. He hasn't done much since the derby so maybe this is his time.
Don't give Wooley any ideas... he might ride MTB all the way to NY from NM if his truck breaks down.

Danzig 11-11-2009 07:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CSC
I don't like it, a one turn mile doesn't really fit his strengths. I really don't see much in the calendar the rest of the year that is too appealing for him, a gr.2 win in the Clark wouldn't add too much to his resume since he is pretty much assured of the 3 yr old male eclispe already. The Malabu? Not a chance, if anything the Dubai World Cup is the most interesting race down the line, the Foster if they want a longer rest for him, I can see him running well there at CD.
i'd think his run at santa anita last saturday would put the kibosh on him going to dubai, since the new track is synthetic.

Danzig 11-11-2009 07:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CSC
Mine That Bird would be more interesting IMO.

he's done for the year.

CSC 11-11-2009 08:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danzig
he's done for the year.
He was done after the derby!

RockHardTen1985 11-11-2009 08:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CSC
Off his last 2 poly races he could be dismissed at a price, I still think he could be a dangerous horse if he is ridden quietly and if he has a pace to run into... who knows maybe a mile is more his thing rather than a 1 1/4. He hasn't done much since the derby so maybe this is his time.

I think he needs a break. We will see him back at Fairgrounds after a few months off.


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