Originally Posted by Cardus

This is so divorced from reality, I'd be embarrassed to post the above.

Let's put aside his character: he might be a "truly great" person in the industry. I take it that you mean that he is a person with exceptional values. That's great, the industry needs more of this.

"Since coming to this country?" He arrived in Burbank, CA at the age of 11!! Invoking someone's immigration into the United States and subsequent professional success is usually reserved for someone who enters at least in a little later in life and creates something life-changing. I don't see how arriving in 1964 -- he was born in March 1953, according to the NTRA -- and finding a modicum of success decades later makes him a "genius."

Is he sui generis because he trained and drove his standardbreds before becoming a Thoroughbred trainer? That could be the case, but from my research, that's not apparent. Guts was a really nice pacer -- I remember that name, Meadowlands Pace winner, perhaps? -- but what else did he accomplish in Harness racing that brought him to the precipice of "genius?"

If he is indeed a "genius," please inform the NTRA ASAP. From his NTRA bio, a career highlight was Golden Doc A's 4th place finish in the 2008 Kentucky Oaks. Alright, if you had the superfecta, you might disagree with this post.

Speaking of Time finished 8th in the 2008 B.C. Ladies Classic. And if she had finished in the money, on what pedastal would Abrams currently rest with you?

I have no agenda here -- who could have an agenda when discussing Barry Abrams, anyway -- and I wish his horse well if she runs in both Breeders' Cup races, but the facts are the facts.

Originally Posted by freddymo

You know you questioned Lava Man coming back into training wondering (rightfully so) what the ramifications could be if he were to break down.. While I am with you that Abrams is OK running her back to back one must be somewhat consisent and suggest that if something happened to the mare in the second race the industry would be in HARMS WAY with the horsey lovers..

Is this a Lethal Heats connections are cool and Lava Man's aren't situation? I am not saying it is but it sure tastes like chicken..lol

Originally Posted by Cardus

No, it was not a lot of effort.

Don't diminish what I posted because I did a little bit of research to debunk the ridiculous.

Originally Posted by Kasept

First of all, I believe under current BC rules, he can pre-enter the 2 races but has to commit on entry day to one or the other. Then even if he could run in both, if you heard him today, he explained the circumstances under which he would do it.. a troubled, undemanding trip in the Distaff. It's a diabolically brilliant idea because it promotes talk about Unusual Heat and how durable and versatile his offspring are...

And a Lethal Heat running on consecutive days and what's going on with Lava Man is apples and oranges.

Originally Posted by Cardus

This is so divorced from reality, I'd be embarrassed to post the above.

Let's put aside his character: he might be a "truly great" person in the industry. I take it that you mean that he is a person with exceptional values. That's great, the industry needs more of this.

"Since coming to this country?" He arrived in Burbank, CA at the age of 11!! Invoking someone's immigration into the United States and subsequent professional success is usually reserved for someone who enters at least in a little later in life and creates something life-changing. I don't see how arriving in 1964 -- he was born in March 1953, according to the NTRA -- and finding a modicum of success decades later makes him a "genius."

Is he sui generis because he trained and drove his standardbreds before becoming a Thoroughbred trainer? That could be the case, but from my research, that's not apparent. Guts was a really nice pacer -- I remember that name, Meadowlands Pace winner, perhaps? -- but what else did he accomplish in Harness racing that brought him to the precipice of "genius?"

If he is indeed a "genius," please inform the NTRA ASAP. From his NTRA bio, a career highlight was Golden Doc A's 4th place finish in the 2008 Kentucky Oaks. Alright, if you had the superfecta, you might disagree with this post.

Speaking of Time finished 8th in the 2008 B.C. Ladies Classic. And if she had finished in the money, on what pedastal would Abrams currently rest with you?

I have no agenda here -- who could have an agenda when discussing Barry Abrams, anyway -- and I wish his horse well if she runs in both Breeders' Cup races, but the facts are the facts.

Originally Posted by freddymo

Steve who the F is Abrams fooling with these ridiculous Unusual Heat's.. Have a heart if racing needed a joker they would have hired Cesar Romero.. Please Unusual Heat..Chuck you lookin for a Swiss Yoddler?

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Are you kidding? Unusual Heat is a tremendous stallion.

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Are you kidding? Unusual Heat is a tremendous stallion.

Originally Posted by Cardus

And if Abrams made him a stallion, in what way?

Originally Posted by freddymo

Tremendous like Speightstown? Tremendous like Pulpit? Tremendous like Street Cry? Tremendous like Smart Strike? Tremendous like Indy? Tremendous like King? Tremendous like Gone West Seeking etc etc .. He has sired a bunch that have beaten a bunch of Bertrandos and Swiss Yodelers maybe a stray Cee's Tizzy.. Lets go with a excellent regional to be fair

Originally Posted by Cardus

Northern Dancer is his grandsire. That's not too bad.

And if Abrams made him a stallion, in what way?

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Uh....

When Lennyfromalibu is clear cut the best horse you've ever sired ... calling him a tremendous stallion is silly.

He gets a lot of productive Cal Bred turfers ... and he's a stallion who's benefited greatly from the synthetic invasion in So Cal.

Other than Lennyfromalibu .. who was a pretty nice turf sprinter/miler for a few races ... he's had nothing of top flight ability.

Not a single one of his top 8 earners he's sired has ever run a triple digit fig. I get that he's moved up mares ... but you have to throw something with some ability at least once before you deserve to be called a tremendous sire.