Originally Posted by philcski

Go For Gin would have been the last legitimate "wise guy" selection that won IMO.

Originally Posted by miraja2

People clearly have different definitions of "wise guy" horses, but personally I wouldn't classify a horse coming in off of a dominant win like Bandini had in the Bluegrass that year as a "wise guy" horse. Typically, when it comes to the Derby, I think wise guy horses are horses that did not win their final derby "prep" race, but the wise guys believe they have found a logical reason why that happened which is unlikely to repeat itself in the Derby. For me, it doesn't mean the same thing as simply an overbet horse.
To me, Desert Party fits the model more than any others this year. That doesn't mean he can't or won't win.

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Giacomo had all the wiseguy elements - he just wasn't bet.

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Like seven or eight of the horses coming into the Derby Dollar Bill's year had a race or two that made them look like friggin beasts.

I realize a lot of them weren't the type who figured to enjoy a fast paced 10 furlong race .. but the year was loaded to the gills with talented sharp horses.

I don't think it's debatable at all. That was the most impressive group coming into the Derby.

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Giacomo had all the wiseguy elements - he just wasn't bet.

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Dunkirk or Desert Party.

Originally Posted by randallscott35

I disagree completely. That race fell apart. There was nothing wiseguy about that horse...A wiseguy horse is bet.

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

He was basically viewed by many as the most likely horse to win the Derby coming into that years 3yo season.

He was a lightly raced horse with a strong closing 2nd to that years 2yo champion - while beating that years BC Juvenile winner in his final 2yo start.

He was five wide on both turns against a speed biased track and still ran a 98 Beyer in the Sham.

He was 2nd in the stakes record San Felipe run over an INSANELY fast track that was carrying speed.

And he was 4th in the merry-go-round like Santa Anita Derby that was a total slow early-fast late race shape.

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

I picked him to win that years Derby - posted it on boards- and there are many here who remember it.

The only difference between him and Dollar Bill is that Dollar Bill was 6/1 and he was 50/1 - and Dollar Bill was running against 7 or 8 horses with more than one vastly superior race while Giacomo was running against 2 or 3 horses with only a single vastly superior race.

Originally Posted by randallscott35

OMG. Golfclap....B/c you picked the horse doesn't make him a wiseguy pick. It makes him a DrugS pick....Where am I, your posts usually make more sense than those in this thread.

Originally Posted by randallscott35

Apparently you aren't understanding the definition of a wise guy horse...Revisionist history doesn't help your argument. 50-1 doesn't make a wise guy horse ever. Someone will always make a case for all 20 horses in a field. It doesn't mean anything. Buzz creates wise guy horses. And Giacomo had the buzz of crickets....some said include in a super. And that's that.

Originally Posted by Kasept

Old Yahoo Group Derby Trailers had at least a heads up about his potetial...
http://www.derbytrail.com/wp/?p=52

Originally Posted by randallscott35

Steve, would you say that Dennis Of Cork was the wise guy horse last year? And he ran well....Sometimes they run well, sometimes they don't.

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Denis of Cork had wiseguy elements ... a better than looked off the board finish in the Illi Derby - but he was 27/1.

He wasn't bet either.

Originally Posted by randallscott35

Steve, would you say that Dennis Of Cork was the wise guy horse last year? And he ran well....Sometimes they run well, sometimes they don't.

Originally Posted by randallscott35

Bzzzz. 27-1 is bet in the Derby. 50-1 is not. Plus, BB took a lot of money in the win spot. DOC was quite a bit different in the ex and tri pools if you ask me.