No, he's not particularly measured singularly against Bush, but all the Congressional posturing from Republicans is nauseating considering that they had zero problem with running up all sorts of spending when it was Bush doing it, but all the sudden they have a problem with spending and want to return to fiscal conservatism.

It's transparent and nobody is falling for it. Republicans don't get to sit back and decide they care about reining in spending now, and talk a big talk, when they've spent the last eight years spending like mad people. Then again, having credibility in any argument at all hasn't exactly been their strong point since the turn of the century, so I shouldn't be all that surprised, really, that they still haven't managed to find any now.

His first swing at leadership is the biggest joke of a spending bill ever attempted. Please spare me the three weeks stuff. A popular incoming President with huge majorities in Congress coming to power with a huge economic issue staring at him and his first order of business is to throw the old guard a trillion dollar bone? Does this not trouble you if you believed in the rhetoric of his campaign? We have nothing else to judge him by. If this was a solid piece of legislation then there wouldn't really be any debate. But it isnt and the reason is that he let it be crafted by the radicals of the party. In a country in with the economic troubles we are facing, it should be relatively simple to craft and get passed an economic stimulus bill that all the people in the country can get behind. He has failed at doing that. What he has done is allowed the far left to take a $900 billion dollar victory lap. That is hard to stomach had we been swimming in money. It is not a good sign.

Again you skirt the issue. You believe that this bill is a positive step? Do you think that the wasteful spending that it contains is going to be good economic stimulus? You think that the CONGRESS, which has been a unmitigated disater for years, has done us a good thing here? This isn't about Bush or Republicians. That is the liberal answer for everything. Deal with the issue.

And obviously somebody is falling for it Brian otherwise they wouldn't have knocked $120 billion off of the top already. Just because your party won doesn't mean that they are right.

And please enlighten me to where Bush ever suggested any legislation that approached the trillion dollar mark.

Yes Brian Bush was a big spender and that was the big problem with him. It is also the problem with the Republican party in that they did not have the backbone to stand firmly against it.

With that said, two points;
1) As big a spender as Bush was, he never came close to anything like this. This huge allocation of funds for mainly pork barrel projects is unprecedented.

2) If Bush's spending was the problem, if the last 8 years of failed policies are what caused this downturn, then why are we doubling down on these failed policies? Obama is going the wrong way, we should be reigning in government spending and cutting taxes and stimulating private investment.

Holy God will you people ever sing another tune. Isn't this exactly what Bush did? Tax cuts for the wealthy? That doesn't help the economy, and it never has. All it does is widen the gap between rich and poor.

Um. Are we not counting the $857 billion bailout bill that had no oversight as to where the money went?

Yeah right and more social programs are great for the economy. Please can you please come up with something other than a "woe are all the poor people in the USA".

Is it possible for a response without a Bush reference? Just once? Defend the bill for us by enlightening us about it features and how they will help the country?

The bill which had almost unanimous bipartisan support? That went towards the bailing out banks which would be considered a crucial part of the economic system? The same stance that most other industrialized nations are taking to fight the economic issues? The money that is used to prop up the credit markets? yeah they are the same.

when has raising taxes helped to grow the economy? I'm mainly talking capital gains taxes.

you might have bought into that simplistic class warfare tax argument, about cutting taxes for the wealthy. the fact is the wealthy pay most of the income taxes, so when taxes are cut they do benefit more than someone that didn't pay anything (the poor).

its not the governments role to manage the gap between rich and poor. if they would stop trying to use the tax code for social engineering we'd all be better off.

You said Bush never suggested legislation nearing $1 trillion. Did he not suggest this? And that bill didn't look like it would pass at first either, so to act like it freaking shot through Congress is ridiculous. The galling lack of oversight and the negligible effects so far make it perplexing why you or anyone would be talking about it so favorably.

Not to mention that $2 trillion war that's accomplished nothing, but I'm done banging my head against that wall. :zz:

It's difficult not to bring up Bush, because Republicans don't really have a leg to stand on in criticizing Obama for spending, when they defended the biggest spending administration in the history of the country. The hypocrisy is too delicious.

Why don't you tell me what exactly makes you so crazy about the stimulus? Don't link me to a Krauthammer op-ed or some WND blog post. Tell me yourself what your biggest problem with it is.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123404707960860295.html

Read this and maybe you'll actually understand that $700 billion dollar piece of legislation. By the way $350 billion is now controlled by the incoming govt appointee who is a democrat.

If you bother to read it you will find that steps are being taken with that $700 billion to deal with the problem. By the way some of Greitnther's ideas seem to be good ones.

Using Bush as a deflection device is typical.

I dont rely on op-ed pieces to form my opinions. I try to look at the facts. I also recognize a wolf in sheeps clothes which is how this thing was first attempeted to be sold.

Not everything is bad but some things are just insane. The education spending for example is totally over the top. Throwing money at education has never worked. And they are throwing about 150 billion at it. They could cut that number in half and it will have the same net effect and of course very little of it will help the economy in any way. Of course not a cent goes to private institutions which I suppose dont count anymore.

This is 85% social spending and 15% economic policy after the new cuts were made. That simply isn't a good thing at this time (or any time really but really bad now). Simply spending money that you dont have isn't economic stimulus despite what Obama says.

Where does that money come from? It has to come from someone in the form of taxes or the govt has to issues bonds to cover it. The person taxed has less to spend thus blunting the economic impact of the dollars given away. If you have a credit card you have to keep finding ways to put money in the bank if you want to keep using it. But this bill is spending money that isnt readily available and hoping that Mom or Dad will bail you out when the payment comes due. And yes Mom or Dad is rich people. You know the ones that create the jobs.

The problem is no one really knows how to inject money
into a severe economic situation that stimulates the economy
and is not wasted because...

Its frkkn impossible.

If a government spends this much money,
some of it WILL be wasted. Seems to me like the
two parties have very different definitions of what
waste is. Republicans are willing to waste huge money
on a war against terrorism(Iraq). Pork is money
that goes into a congressional district that is not
yours or something you do not believe in. For Republicans
money spent on the military, intelligence, etc... cannot
possibly be Pork by the very definition of where the money
goes.

So all the Republicans can basically say about the bill is
it is a giant waste of money because they apparently had
no clue on how to dole out money properly either. A lot
of money that was supposed to stimulate the economy
went directly to pay off debt or stabilize the appearance
on some bank balance sheets. Loans are still difficult to get,
people that do have money are not spending it...
Republicans have absolutely no clue what to do
either. Tax cuts did next to nothing given the enormity
of the current problem.
Obama got elected mainly because of Republican incompetence
in so many areas. So I say shut the hell up because you
got us into some of the worst messes this country has
seen for a long time.

a good portion will be wasted. the government is a poorly run institution, full of fraud and waste.

It will not be wasted if it goes to "your" congressional
district. If it pays for a proper science lab room in
in "your" school district it will not be wasted. If it hires
a good teacher it will not be wasted. I could go on...

But it "you" do not see the benifits IMMEDIATELY and
DIRECTLY, it is a waste.

Another response that does supports nothing of substance and ignores realities.

military spending creates jobs and helps stimulate the economy. Ask one of your fellow teaschers in the history dept about military spending, the economy and WWII.

A proper science lab or a good teacher hire is a local or state issue not a national one.
Building new schools just to build new schools is a waste

obviously it's not wasted if it creates jobs and helps the economy...i'm talking about fraud/waste in other areas. how much of medicare is wasted by fraudulent claims? remember the study that showed doctors were billing for patients that were dead, or had never existed? california hospitals were putting homeless folks in beds, claiming they ran tests, gave treatment, and billed the govt for it-and it was all made up. that is my idea of waste/fraud.

they should legalize marijuana, tax the crap out of it-that would create jobs and provide tax revenue. also would help states cut their budget, as they would need less cops, prison guards, judges, etc.