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-   -   Just in case anyone still thinks Prado can ride (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23559)

Bobby Fischer 06-26-2008 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hockey2315
In regards to Mission Approved - I'm not so sure about the inferior animal part. . . or the great ride by Dominguez part. He did what he was supposed to do - go to the lead on a lone speed horse and slow it down. I'm sure their plan from the beginning was to try and steal it. . . it was the right ride - not necessarily a great ride.

Coa was originally scheduled and only switched off because of injury. Do you think Coa wins that race?

I think Coa loses.

GPK 06-26-2008 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698
That's silly. Coa had been aboard the horse for 3 of his previous 5 wins, including 2 paceless, alone on the lead wire to wire wins.


You're making sense Hossy...stop it.

hoovesupsideyourhead 06-26-2008 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby Fischer
yea, he is surprisingly good on a turf route with the controlling speed. That is pretty much the only thing he does at a high level compared with other jockeys.

Disagree?

well big guy any jockey that has conrolling speed..has an advantage but mile smith is terrible the last 3 years on anything..id give his mounts to c hill before him....

Bobby Fischer 06-26-2008 11:58 AM

Just a case of seeing something totally different. I saw a masterful ride, exhibiting the wire to wire skills on a turf route that I believe very few posses. There is no one in new york at the moment that can even execute top class efforts wire-to-wire on a turf route, and so often the opportunity arises. To me it was one of the better rides of the year, although it was definetly a niche ride, and not say a classic race on dirt. Rahy's Attorney was clearly the best in the race from my perspective. I couldn't see Coa, Gomez, Velasquez, or Prado win that race 2 times out of five with Mission Approved. I would expect them to fade out of the exacta at least.

I do respect your opinions and agree to disagree.

Linny 06-26-2008 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoovesupsideyourhead
well big guy any jockey that has conrolling speed..has an advantage but mile smith is terrible the last 3 years on anything..id give his mounts to c hill before him....

Was that a typo or you referring to his taking the overland route?

philcski 06-26-2008 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698
That's silly. Coa had been aboard the horse for 3 of his previous 5 wins, including 2 paceless, alone on the lead wire to wire wins.

I love how much people think the jockey matters... there's two types of jocks to me, competent and incompetent. Coa and Dominguez are obviously both "competent."

blackthroatedwind 06-26-2008 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Linny
Was that a typo or you referring to his taking the overland route?


Hooves's middle name is typo.

hoovesupsideyourhead 06-26-2008 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind
Hooves's middle name is typo.

yes it is... arrrrrrrr the biggest hanger in ny..lol

pgardn 06-26-2008 12:53 PM

If I may be so bold to ask...

In the board's opinion, what jockey is best a bringing
home horses that really should not be winning?

ateamstupid 06-26-2008 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoovesupsideyourhead
well big guy any jockey that has conrolling speed..has an advantage but mile smith is terrible the last 3 years on anything..id give his mounts to c hill before him....

I never saw anything wrong with Channing. He just doesn't seem to get the mounts. If you give him a decent horse, he does fine.

hockey2315 06-26-2008 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pgardn
If I may be so bold to ask...

In the board's opinion, what jockey is best a bringing
home horses that really should not be winning?

there's no such thing. . .

pgardn 06-26-2008 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hockey2315
there's no such thing. . .

So if a longer shot horse wins, the jockey can never have
a role in the win. Jockeys can only cause horses to lose?

Therefore the best jocks are the ones who screw up the least.

hockey2315 06-26-2008 01:25 PM

Pretty much. . . there's a difference between having a role in the win and being the reason for it, but no - a jockey can't make a horse - or at least his horse win.

pgardn 06-26-2008 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hockey2315
Pretty much. . . there's a difference between having a role in the win and being the reason for it, but no - a jockey can't make a horse - or at least his horse win.

So if a jock has to make a decision... ahhh lets say a turf race turning for home. And the best decision for winning consists of two options:
1. to stay closer to the rail and get trapped or wait for a hole to open up as horses tire and move
versus

2. swinging wide and having a clear run but possibly sacrificing the horses chances to win by running further and using more energy

So there is no way for a jock to make the right decision because the right decision is always a known at that very point in time when the decision is made. Or there is no such thing at a particular point in time for two possible decisons to both have equivalent values. It is always clear that one is better than the other at that point in time (ie not after the race is over)

So that in watching any race, if a jock has to make a decision, a good handicapper knows what that decision should be at that very point in time?

hockey2315 06-26-2008 01:45 PM

A jockey can make the right decision but he still needs the HORSE to pull it off. . . He doesn't make the horse win, he just gives the horse the opportunity to win.

pgardn 06-26-2008 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hockey2315
A jockey can make the right decision but he still needs the HORSE to pull it off. . . He doesn't make the horse win, he just gives the horse the opportunity to win.

So jockeys can make correct decisions or wrong decisions?

hockey2315 06-26-2008 01:52 PM

But they can't be the reason for the horse winning. . . They can be the reason for the horse not losing.


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