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-   -   Prado on Casino Drive (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22819)

stonegossard 05-28-2008 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698
You can't be serious. What does one have to do with the other? How can you completely avoid what I said and talk about another race?


The guy probably lost a bunch cahsing Hard Spun in The Belmont. Needs to blame somebody for his loss.

stonegossard 05-28-2008 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698
I usually just blame Morty.


Morty has to be psyched. Ohio Derby is the one day he stops making lampshades out of human body parts in his basement.... and goes out into public and heads to Thistledowns.

The Indomitable DrugS 05-28-2008 07:48 PM

The Belmont ride on Hard Spun was a comical Fucl< up.

Gomez could have had a clear and uncontested lead through very moderate fraction - instead he opted to strangle the whole way, in a play to keep Curlin bottled up inside.

I disagree that he was trying to lose the race - obviously. However, it was painfully obvious that he put the bullseye on odds-on favorite Curlin - and was race riding him .. keeping him inside of horses where he doesn't want to be..and getting first run when it's time to sprint home.

It was a great strategy at taking Curlin out of his comfort zone - but Hard Spun is basically an allowance horse when he can't make the lead - and a Grade 1 type stake horse when he can.

NoLuvForPletch 05-28-2008 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698
You can't be serious. What does one have to do with the other? How can you completely avoid what I said and talk about another race?

You said Gomez wasn't exactly known for sending early, right?

NoLuvForPletch 05-28-2008 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698
Right he isn't. Enough of the diversion. We're talking about the Belmont, not the Acorn. Don't you think it's possible that them going after Gomez was because they were trying to get him to relax a bit? Go watch the Preakness again.

No I think in their mind he was the "best jock available". They were wrong. I'm sure Larry Jones didn't tell him to choke the horse for a mile and sprint home. The horse relaxes fine. Watch the race at Turfway. Pino moved him in the Preakness. He didn't just decide after half a mile on his own to take off like that.

dalakhani 05-28-2008 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS
The Belmont ride on Hard Spun was a comical Fucl< up.

Gomez could have had a clear and uncontested lead through very moderate fraction - instead he opted to strangle the whole way, in a play to keep Curlin bottled up inside.

I disagree that he was trying to lose the race - obviously. However, it was painfully obvious that he put the bullseye on odds-on favorite Curlin - and was race riding him .. keeping him inside of horses where he doesn't want to be..and getting first run when it's time to sprint home.

It was a great strategy at taking Curlin out of his comfort zone - but Hard Spun is basically an allowance horse when he can't make the lead - and a Grade 1 type stake horse when he can.

I agree with much of what you say here. But...In Hard Spun's only Grade 1 (the kings bishop) win, he was forced to rate until the turn.

The Indomitable DrugS 05-28-2008 09:19 PM

Hard Spun vyed for the lead in that race - and it was a VERY mediocre field.

First Defense and E Z Warrior - the horses who finished 2nd and 3rd - they aren't even real good allowance horses in most years.

I tend to look at races for what they are - and don't get carried away with the names of them or what Grade they are.

dalakhani 05-28-2008 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS
Hard Spun vyed for the lead in that race - and it was a VERY mediocre field.

First Defense and E Z Warrior - the horses who finished 2nd and 3rd - they aren't even real good allowance horses in most years.

I tend to look at races for what they are - and don't get carried away with the names of them or what Grade they are.

I thought EZ Warrior might be something but there was always an excuse. First Defence, although i believe is talented, is gutless.

How many races these days can you say are graded stakes then? Im not disagreeing with you, I think there are plenty of horses that have built false resumes on fake graded stake races. My only point is that besides the classics, hard spun really never raced anything where you could draw that conclusion. No?

my miss storm cat 05-29-2008 12:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by booner
What happened to Take coming to Belmont?

Of course, the obvious answer would be Prado's familiarity with Belmont Park; I was just wondering if something else happened.

Not sure but Vodka is now probable for the Yasuda Kinen (on the 8th) which could have had something to do with it.....

That's just speculation though.

Bobby Fischer 05-29-2008 10:37 AM

Prado knows how to get a good trip when he has a good horse.

Is skilled with the whip, but slow and deliberate.

Travis Stone 05-29-2008 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS
Gomez could have had a clear and uncontested lead through very moderate fraction - instead he opted to strangle the whole way, in a play to keep Curlin bottled up inside.

To me, it seems as though Gomez is a much better off-the-pace rider than he has a pace guy. He almost always takes back versus go to the front.

alysheba4 05-29-2008 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS
The Belmont ride on Hard Spun was a comical Fucl< up.

Gomez could have had a clear and uncontested lead through very moderate fraction - instead he opted to strangle the whole way, in a play to keep Curlin bottled up inside.

I disagree that he was trying to lose the race - obviously. However, it was painfully obvious that he put the bullseye on odds-on favorite Curlin - and was race riding him .. keeping him inside of horses where he doesn't want to be..and getting first run when it's time to sprint home.

It was a great strategy at taking Curlin out of his comfort zone - but Hard Spun is basically an allowance horse when he can't make the lead - and a Grade 1 type stake horse when he can.

....too bad you didnt ride him.

mrmikegap 05-29-2008 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by knickslions2
Prado and Casino Drive will be lucky to even see Brown down the stretch as Brown will be 15 lengths in front of him. Then down the stretch Prado will get hit in the face by dirt kicked up by Denis of Cork as Cork blows past him down the stretch. Casino Drive will be lucky to finish in the money.


Just prior to last years Breeders cup, I remember seeing a statistic lthat horses that ship in from overseas were like 1 for 59 winning their 2nd start in the U.S., if they won their first start. I don't remember where I read it, but it must have been on either bloodhorse.com or on Brisnet.com handicapping edge. Casino Drive fits this model.

alysheba4 05-29-2008 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrmikegap
Just prior to last years Breeders cup, I remember seeing a statistic lthat horses that ship in from overseas were like 1 for 59 winning their 2nd start in the U.S., if they won their first start. I don't remember where I read it, but it must have been on either bloodhorse.com or on Brisnet.com handicapping edge. Casino Drive fits this model.

....it does seem alot do regress, i wont be surpised if this horse runs huge.

SniperSB23 05-29-2008 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stonegossard
Correct me if I am wrong...but didnt Hard Spun fail on the lead in The Derby going 1 1/4 ? How could he go 1 1/2 then on the lead. From what I remember they never rated him before The Belmont. Maybe..just maybe Jones knew his horse could not get the Belmont distance on the lead and wanted to try something different.

To suggest Gomez tried to lose on purpose is assinine.

Pace makes the race. He could have gone 1:13 and easily been on the lead in that Belmont. Off a relaxed 1:13 instead of a hard held 1:15 he would have had a much better chance of winning the race.

CSC 05-29-2008 08:45 PM

"I feel that he will do it," Dutrow said. "I feel that it's a foregone conclusion. I've seen the horses he's been with; I've seen our horse. I expect him to win this race."

One horse Dutrow appears to be less afraid of is Casino Drive. After the Preakness, Dutrow said that it's a cold exacta, Big Brown-Casino Drive. Wednesday, he advised bettors to use other horses underneath.

"This Japanese horse, he's got so much to prove," he said. "I don't know if he's on top of his game. I'm getting different reports from people. I would not depend on that horse to be second."


Love him or hate him, probably more with the latter...I like how Dutrow speaks his mind. Is Casino Drive the 'Super' wiseguy pick for the Belmont? Even if he wins which I doubt if Big Brown runs his race, he's still got to be considered a wiseguy's pick. You have the Prado angle, you have the Jazil/RTR angle, you have the Japanese angle....anyone got a few more angles to throw out?


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