I finally watched the race and I have to agree with Jim.

Christ, the winner saved all the ground and set fractions of 24/48/113/137 and Talamo's horse rated 8 lenghts off that pace and missed by a nose.

Where did he stiff you?

You're predictably contrarian.The only thing unusual about your post about YMUSTICAHASETHECAT is that you didn't say the winner was your top choice in the race.That would be your normal way.I want to know something.You are so sure that none of these horses ever get bad rides.I got to know something.

Anita 12-30-07 RACE 7 .....Yasinisi......Close to the wire,..Doesn't Solis just hand 3rd place in a stakes to Bejarano?

A bad ride and a stiff are very different
things. I thought stiff meant intent to hold
a horse back from winning or intentionally
producing a poor performance from a horse.

How the heck do you get that out of that ride.
You can call it whatever, but a stiff?
If you play this game and can clearly call that
a stiff you dont have the temprament to handle
all the crap that can happen.

of course not, the truth is there was no stiff. no rational asessment of that ride would conclude that anything was amiss. he basically rode a winning race, its just that the winner had something left late.

2hot4tv these guys are talking about a different race.

As far as your comment goes I dont think you realize the race was 1 1/4. You dont think those are honest fractions going 1 1/4 miles.

Again, the ride was absolutely criminal. It was a stiff job, a butcher job, a bad ride, its whatever you want to call it. Its the best horse getting beat when hes rolling by at the 16th pole with all the momentum. Its Talamoses taking a visable measure to his inside and not finishing his ride, Talamoses being a fool.

I call it a stiff job because the best horse was beaten and never should have been. Its stiffing the public, the trainer, the owner, its brutal. There is no excuse for a ride like that and he should be fined, and given days.

I have no dog in this fight, but after having watched the replay a few times now...that statement in bold hits the nail on the head. In no way, shape or form did Joe T finish riding the horse to the wire.

No, he didnt finish his ride, he didnt think about finishing his ride. He absolutely stopped on the horse once he rolled up with all the momentum. Not passing in that situation is inexcusable

I see what you guys are saying.
But then you have posters like
fat man getting pissed because
a horse is getting a beatn throwing
the horse out of contention.

So I get a bit confused when people gripe
that a horse was doing well until the jockey
starting overriding a horse. And then we get
this where a jock figures (I guess) that he is
getting everything out of a horse. So now the
jock is not finishing the ride.

Personally Ive got beaten by much worse than
that ride. Of course I play mostly at a pretty crappy track
so I have come to accept it.

I think Gomez and Bejarano would of won with Le Cirque,but not sure any of the other riders would have (at Anita.)The horse is pretty despicable.

Pat...what I see him doing has nothing to do with beating the horse. IMO Joe T clearly stops shaking the reigns on the horse...like he quits asking the horse for run. May not look like much at first, but I think it is enough of a difference between winning and losing. I think I know Bid well enough that if he felt Joe T had ridden the horse out and still got beat, he would have never started this thread to begin with. All I ever ask for in a race is a fair chance...I don't think this horse was given a fair chance. He headed the other horse, was rolling by the other horse and Joe T quit asking after that. Who knows if he thought he was gonna keep cruising by the horse, or what, but he clearly made a mistake.

I would say 99 percent of the colony would have won on that horse. Talamoses is probably the only one dumb enough to try to measure a neck victory.

Hes a pretty honest horse Scuds, and he was the best horse in that race. Its just ashame that these guys arent held accountable when they sh it the bed like that

If the connections of this horse feel like you do
you dont think the jock will be held accountable?
You think the owner and trainer are saying tough
loss Joe, if they feel like you do?
That was a damn close race.

I didn't mention anything about my choice because first of all, i didn't play that day, so I didn't wager, and secondly that wasn't the point. I saw your post touting the horse, looked at the field and yes looked at my ratings, and thought to myself that this horse was going to have trouble. the field was competitive and deep relatively speaking for that horse. I only commented when I saw that your only take on the result was to bash the ride.
by the way, where did I ever say that riders never give bad rides? of course they do but its an overrated angle imo, and I see many times when people are quick to point out microscopic issues about a ride when the ride wouldn't have made much difference which I feel is the case here.

For the record while I didn't play the race my ratings had it like this;
1 Forest Danz, 2 Specialist Morgen, 3 Iza General, 4 Indian Weaver, 5 Jacobs Profit, 6 I'll Prey for You, 7 Ymustichasethecat, 8 A Stare and me, 9 Escalante. The public had it about the same way, but it was wrong nonetheless having to go six deep to find the winner.

looking at bris speed figures, the winner of that race was given a 90. The winner had a lifetime best number of 102.

on the other hand, ymustichasethecat's lifetime best is only 89. the previous win earned him an 86 and yesterday he earned an 85 meaning that although the pace was distributed a little differently, the end result was right in line with the previous effort. It would have taken a lifetime best from him to have scored yesterday.

to me its illogical to skip over facts like this and instead come up with such insightful comments as "Chantal!!! ugghh".

Just watched it again.
Not obssessed, just trying to understand
as I like reading diff. opinions on these types
of events.

If that was intentional, Talamo is really
horrible because he came way too close to winning.
He is really a bad jock if he was truly trying to
stiff the horse, horrible judgement...

but the original assertion here wasn't that it was a mistake. It was that it was a criminal "stiff" job and he should get time and be fined which is quite simply laughable.

When I say despicable,I mean her will to win.She has made what? 90k or so? She is a decent horse,but not great at closing the deal.That's why I am not so sure anybody but Gomez and Bejarano would have won with her.Those 2 riders can really finish a race,and that's what we are talking about here.

Point taken...

But I can't honestly sit here and say that had I been in Bid's shoes, that I wouldn't have made the same type of post. Im just as guilty, as many of us are, about venting when it comes to things of that nature. Had I bet on that horse on Sunday...I most likely would have beat Bid to the punch and posted something very similar.

I think it's illogical to ignore the horse's style,and duel on the lead(he has failed 3 times, atleast, with this method.) The horse can win at this same level in a couple weeks.Makes no sense to talk about his chances yesterday,because she put him in a position he doesn't like (dueling.)I flatly disagree with anybody who ignores a horse's style ,and thinks they are gunna run some figure no matter where they are placed in a race.I guess if we were all such believers in figures then we would have gone with the 1st 2 horses you had rated.They are out of form,but hey,they got hi figures.

You need really good rides to win most of these races.I wish it wasn't true,but it is.Most of these races are very competitive situations,and you can not win without a very good ride.

Jim, whats really laughable is your inability to recognize what a poor ride that was. Take it for what it was, a horribly disgraceful finish, or lack thereof, a misjudged wire, a misjudged measure, and a total display of incompetence. In this case Talamoses incompetence as a rider is equal to your incompetence to understand what really happened.