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-   -   Mitt's Speech...and a rebuttal (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18628)

GBBob 12-08-2007 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig
i just hope whoever does end up winning doesn't turn out to be a complete embarrassment with no credibility.

i know that the president is head of foreign policy. can't help but think that maybe that should change. why should our approach to other countries go thru a change every four years?
i don't know that i'd say bush is our worst ever (he's not our first bad one for sure!!) but is he our worst two-term president ever? that may be the case.


The above is actually a great litmus for evaluating a candidate that often gets ignored. There are many that feel the US should have no "foreign policy" and that our image World wide is a moot point because we are the only country that matters.

Danzig 12-08-2007 07:36 PM

i just think there are far more important tests for who should be the next president then what religion he or she follows. there's supposed to be a separation of church and state, yet so often the religious part of the candidates gets too much play.
i don't care how mitt, or hillary, or any of them celebrate christmas, i care how they will handle the middle east, or russia, or china, or domestic issues.

but no, let's focus on important stuff such as the teachings of a candidates religion. goodness knows that matters in the grand scheme of things.

Coach Pants 12-08-2007 08:54 PM

Did someone really compare Ward Cleaver to the taliban?

ArlJim78 12-09-2007 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GBBob
These are recent quotes from Huckabee. I'm not sure how they can be interpreted as anything other than jeoprdizing freedom from religion.

" Science changes with every generation and with new discoveries, and God doesn't...So I'll stick with God if the two are in conflict"

he will oppose gay marriage until " Moses comes down with two stone tablets from Brokeback Mountain saying he's changed the rules."

"If you're with Jesus Christ, we know how it turns out in the final moment. I've read the last chapter in the book, and we do end up winning."

I respect and even envy those with strong faith, no matter who the deity. But this guy, IMO, will clearly let his beliefs determine policy

what should a person use to determine a policy position other than your belief system? what policys do you see him pushing based on the above quotes? the only quote that is a real issue is gay marriage and I don't think that is an issue that the president can do much about on his own.

he is not my cup of tea, frankly he talks about his faith too much for my taste, he's running for president not nations pastor.
but please tell me what president does not let his beliefs guide him. how can any religious person not have their views influenced by religion? is it any shock that this is where his beliefs come from?

i just think people worry too much about this threat to being free from religion. most presidents are somewhat religious people. its talked about a lot in the primary season in order to motivate the base, but in the general election and in actual governing it gets put aside.

pgardn 12-09-2007 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GBBob
These are recent quotes from Huckabee. I'm not sure how they can be interpreted as anything other than jeoprdizing freedom from religion.

" Science changes with every generation and with new discoveries, and God doesn't...So I'll stick with God if the two are in conflict"

Science does not change, it is a way of seeking the truth about very specific questions.The things science finds out causes us to change our ideas of how things work as we continue to use this process.

And on God... He knows God does not change. I would like that email address. I have some questions.

An agnostic has absolutely no chance of becoming president in this country. You have to be sure about everything to become president. Kind of scary.
Candidates are not ever allowed to say, "I dont know." I got a problem with that.

hi_im_god 12-09-2007 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pgardn
Science does not change, it is a way of seeking the truth about very specific questions.The things science finds out causes us to change our ideas of how things work as we continue to use this process.

And on God... He knows God does not change. I would like that email address. I have some questions.

An agnostic has absolutely no chance of becoming president in this country. You have to be sure about everything to become president. Kind of scary.
Candidates are not ever allowed to say, "I dont know." I got a problem with that.



here's a fuller explanation of the context of that quote:

Huckabee "raised his hand in a debate when the candidates were asked en masse if they believed in intelligent design." In fact, what the candidates were asked at the GOP presidential debate on May 4 was to raise their hands if they did not "believe in evolution." Huckabee raised his.

Immediately after the debate, Huckabee said that it was "fine with me" if other people want to believe that they "came from apes." "I'll accept that," he said. "I just don't happen to think that I did."

But by the time Huckabee appeared on Bill Maher's show in August, he had that more "nuanced" view on evolution. "It's not a proper yes-or-no question," he said. "Do I believe that it is all about just random selection, that it just happened without any design, designer, anybody behind it? No I don't believe that, I think there was a God behind that."

When Maher asked Huckabee if he believed that man came from monkeys, he said: "I don't know."

At a press conference Monday, Huckabee suggested that reporters read Alter's "very thoughtful" piece, saying that he thought the columnist had gotten it right.

A reporter asked Huckabee how he thought his views -- including his view on evolution -- might play in the general election.

"Oh, I believe in science. I certainly do," he said. "In fact, what I believe in is, I believe in God. I don't think there's a conflict between the two. But if there's going to be a conflict, science changes with every generation and with new discoveries and God doesn't. So I'll stick with God if the two are in conflict."

this is a stiff inflexible mind just barely capable of nuance when the possible reward is great enough.

i join his supporter's in praying he gets the nominination.

pgardn 12-09-2007 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hi_im_god
here's a fuller explanation of the context of that quote:

Huckabee "raised his hand in a debate when the candidates were asked en masse if they believed in intelligent design." In fact, what the candidates were asked at the GOP presidential debate on May 4 was to raise their hands if they did not "believe in evolution." Huckabee raised his.

Immediately after the debate, Huckabee said that it was "fine with me" if other people want to believe that they "came from apes." "I'll accept that," he said. "I just don't happen to think that I did."

But by the time Huckabee appeared on Bill Maher's show in August, he had that more "nuanced" view on evolution. "It's not a proper yes-or-no question," he said. "Do I believe that it is all about just random selection, that it just happened without any design, designer, anybody behind it? No I don't believe that, I think there was a God behind that."

When Maher asked Huckabee if he believed that man came from monkeys, he said: "I don't know."

At a press conference Monday, Huckabee suggested that reporters read Alter's "very thoughtful" piece, saying that he thought the columnist had gotten it right.

A reporter asked Huckabee how he thought his views -- including his view on evolution -- might play in the general election.

"Oh, I believe in science. I certainly do," he said. "In fact, what I believe in is, I believe in God. I don't think there's a conflict between the two. But if there's going to be a conflict, science changes with every generation and with new discoveries and God doesn't. So I'll stick with God if the two are in conflict."

this is a stiff inflexible mind just barely capable of nuance when the possible reward is great enough.

i join his supporter's in praying he gets the nominination.

Well he just lost the Biologist vote.
That is a huge block in the Republican party dont ya know.

Danzig 12-12-2007 11:33 AM

huckabee vs romney continues.

huck asks 'don't mormons believe that jesus and satan are brothers?' supposed to run as part of a story coming out on sunday.

romney of course now all fired up, as he feels huck is attacking his religion. which he is imo.

ArlJim78 12-12-2007 12:30 PM

these guys are making a mistake in my view by putting religion front and center. it might make them more popular with a narrow group of people, but it will not serve to broaden their appeal to the masses.

SentToStud 12-12-2007 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArlJim78
these guys are making a mistake in my view by putting religion front and center. it might make them more popular with a narrow group of people, but it will not serve to broaden their appeal to the masses.

Agree. And the nominee, esp if its Huckabee or Romney, will have to move further to the middle. It's all so much a waste. It would be nice to hear something other than the same tired rhetoric. From both parties.

On the other hand, I truly think all this political and legislative inertia is a big part of what makes America great. Change happens very slowly, which is a good thing, when compared to other "elected" governments.

As an aside, I have not heard any comments from either party on guns. The need to take a ride down 8 Mile or cruise the United Center on a non-game night.

GPK 12-12-2007 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SentToStud
Agree. And the nominee, esp if its Huckabee or Romney, will have to move further to the middle. It's all so much a waste. It would be nice to hear something other than the same tired rhetoric. From both parties.

On the other hand, I truly think all this political and legislative inertia is a big part of what makes America great. Change happens very slowly, which is a good thing, when compared to other "elected" governments.

As an aside, I have not heard any comments from either party on guns. The need to take a ride down 8 Mile or cruise the United Center on a non-game night.


Who they looking for..Eminem?

SentToStud 12-12-2007 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GPK
Who they looking for..Eminem?

This is for the people from Detroit.... Where the weak are eaten alive.


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