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-   -   Bless You George Washington... (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17715)

johnny pinwheel 10-29-2007 10:34 AM

it comes down to running sound horses. any horse that doesn't start for months or retires and comes back. should be questioned. the greed factor is a problem. they made discreet cat 7/5, he has not won since 8/2006. do you think hes the same horse? well they ran him. then the ones that are good and healthy ,well most of them will be retired. street sense,hard spun,curlin will say bye ,bye. gw was impotent so back to racing he went. these rich folks used to race for pride. not the bottom line. who pays the price ?horses like GW and the fans thats who!

Cannon Shell 10-29-2007 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scurlogue Champ
A two time European champion turf miler who wins the Breeders Cup Classic on dirt would be considered a bit of a champion in my book.

And I'd guess you were wrong, I think he wanted to run the horse.

How do you know I'm guessing...

I cant wait to see the ads in the Bloodhorse

HORSE GOES TO STUD>>>CHAMPION IN SCURLOGUES BOOK

parsixfarms 10-29-2007 02:56 PM

George earned his retirement. Having made the decision last year that his racing career was over, the Coolmore group should be ashamed of themselves for bringing him back to the races, solely because they concluded that he could not be the "profit center" for them that they envisioned. Of course, shame is in short supply with this outfit; after all, they are the prime American backers of Patrick Biancone - and why do I suspect that on November 1, 2008, he'll be training for them again.

Cannon Shell 10-29-2007 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cardus
Comments from leading Irish trainer Jim Bolger about George Washington, the Breeders' Cup, drugs, and American racing:

http://news.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=41736

Naturally they blame everything except the EUROPEAN connections for the breakdown. The fact that an overmatched, former champion whose form had deteoriated and who was being ridden and whipped down the backstretch of the race to keep up is ignored.

This is supposedly one of those non drug, sound european horses that brokedown, not our drug infested, weak American horses.

Kasept 10-29-2007 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by merasmag
they usually do veer off but b4 my "board break" i noticed the overzealous moderators consolidating and moving posts right and left...maybe they got tired of it but, even tho this horse was not one i followed religiously, i still hope this thread doesn't denigrate into an idiotic discussion of the idiotic comments in the article

First of all, the 'idiotic comments' aren't emanating from the article...

Jim Bolger has every right to make those comments and they're being echoed by many other important European conditioners and media members. And they're absolutely timely, germane and important fodder for discussion here.

fpsoxfan 10-29-2007 04:25 PM

The article simply reflects how many people deal with many things these days. Point the finger towards someone or something. It was a tragedy. It's part of the sport we love. I wish it would never happen, but it does.

Danzig 10-29-2007 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnny pinwheel
it comes down to running sound horses. any horse that doesn't start for months or retires and comes back. should be questioned. the greed factor is a problem. they made discreet cat 7/5, he has not won since 8/2006. do you think hes the same horse? well they ran him. then the ones that are good and healthy ,well most of them will be retired. street sense,hard spun,curlin will say bye ,bye. gw was impotent so back to racing he went. these rich folks used to race for pride. not the bottom line. who pays the price ?horses like GW and the fans thats who!

i bet a year ago when they retired gw, you screamed greed. you probably wanted him to run at four, i know i did. so now greed brought him back?
you know, citation missed his entire four year old season. came back like gangbusters at five. that's just one example.
there are other horses who have run well past the age of four, or have been retired and then brought back to racing for one reason or another.

had gw not been sub-fertile, he'd not have come back. but we're talking about a four year old in his prime, not a much older horse. he missed a few months, probably not much more of a layoff then what flower alley had between his bc and his first race the next season. he was multiple group one placed this year, not exactly scraping the bottom of the barrel.
should he have run the race, in hindsight we'd all say no. but there were no indications leading up to the race that he shouldn't go. no one would have done as they had, had they known then what we all know now. but no one had that benefit.

Cannon Shell 10-29-2007 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kasept
First of all, the 'idiotic comments' aren't emanating from the article...

Jim Bolger has every right to make those comments and they're being echoed by many other important European conditioners and media members. And they're absolutely timely, germane and important fodder for discussion here.

We also have the right to tell him that if the Euros suddenly dont like our money then they dont have to come. If our racing is so bad then stay home. They certainly have no problem sending their bleeders over here. If they dont like the track conditions than they should stay home or scratch.

Danzig 10-29-2007 04:31 PM

i suppose bolger thinks poly would have made all the difference for george, and the 'turf tracks without the drugs' comment must be his reasoning for the euros going 0- this year.

Cannon Shell 10-29-2007 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig
i suppose bolger thinks poly would have made all the difference for george, and the 'turf tracks without the drugs' comment must be his reasoning for the euros going 0- this year.

typical bs and I hate to tell him that Churchill and Belmont which are the 2 likely choices for the next BC's are still dirt.

Danzig 10-29-2007 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
typical bs and I hate to tell him that Churchill and Belmont which are the 2 likely choices for the next BC's are still dirt.

i wonder how things will go next year on the all weather.....will more euros come do you suppose?
call me crazy, but i'd imagine they'll still be calling the vets for the evil drugs upon landing....

Cannon Shell 10-29-2007 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig
i wonder how things will go next year on the all weather.....will more euros come do you suppose?
call me crazy, but i'd imagine they'll still be calling the vets for the evil drugs upon landing....

I dont know if they will come because they dont like
1. Weather - too hot
2. Cali - too far
3. Turns too tight
4. Turf too hard (though this year it was too soft! go figure euros complaining about soft turf)
5. Money exchange is bad
6. Too many drugs
7. wrong kind of synthetic track
8. no free plane rides

brockguy 10-29-2007 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
I dont know if they will come because they dont like
1. Weather - too hot
2. Cali - too far
3. Turns too tight
4. Turf too hard (though this year it was too soft! go figure euros complaining about soft turf)
5. Money exchange is bad
6. Too many drugs
7. wrong kind of synthetic track
8. no free plane rides

i should be there though :)

if its marketed properly to Aussie and Asian horses, next years BC could be the best yet..

Cannon Shell 10-29-2007 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brockguy
i should be there though :)

if its marketed properly to Aussie and Asian horses, next years BC could be the best yet..

You are honorary Yankee...you dont really count!

NoChanceToDance 10-29-2007 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
I dont know if they will come because they dont like
1. Weather - too hot
2. Cali - too far
3. Turns too tight
4. Turf too hard (though this year it was too soft! go figure euros complaining about soft turf)
5. Money exchange is bad
6. Too many drugs
7. wrong kind of synthetic track
8. no free plane rides

I think we will send a number of horses to Santa Anita. Some will be put off because of the heat and the distance, but overall we have had quite a good record there in recent years, i believe.

Extremes of turf conditions is always a problem. The only horses that didn't want a soft surface this year was Dylan Thomas. Unlike most european turf horses, the turf cannot be firm enough for him. As Aidan commented, he needs it like "concrete".

Exchange rate will hopefully be better than it is right now. Why is the dollar so weak at the moment???? We are getting a dollar for around 30 pence right now. I have never seen it so weak for so many months.

Our racing country is far too kind by giving free transport for overseas horses to our big meets, having said that they do it in Dubai, too.

One option i have heard for the Breeders Cup "world championships" is to split it into two. Have the turf races in europe or even asia, and the dirt races in America. I think then it really could be called a "world championship" event.

Although the surface doesn't seem to have any direct link with the George Washington injury, vets have said that it isn't impossible that it did cause some ill-effects. I didn't realise that when a dirt track gets so sloppy, the horses are basically running on the hard base, which could have led to the fracture becoming an open fracture with the added concussion going through the leg.

Riot 10-29-2007 04:58 PM

If someone takes a great-performing horse off the track at three and puts him into the shed, they are greedy bastards.

If they take the non-useful horse out of the shed and put the good race horse back on the track to continue to race, they are greedy bastards.

If a horse isn't a top fav for a race he shouldn't be in there.

Fields are too short because everyone is afraid of being beat and pulls their horse. We deserve better - put those longer shots back in there.

If a horse breaks down, it's the connection's fault - they knew the horse was at risk.

Or it's the fault of the dirt. Or the poly. Or the turf. Or the breeding. Or drug abuse.

I forgot this one: if you are one of the top ten horses in the country in your division, you're still nothing but crap if your Beyer is 5 points less than those better, and you don't deserve to race with them!

This sport is so confusing.


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