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SentToStud 06-26-2007 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bababooyee
Here! Here!

STS for Prez!

lol. ... and if elected, I will not serve. But here is my platform.

Free Health Insurance for Everyone! Go to f---ing Britain where it's free. Free after a 8% tax to employees and a similar payroll tax on employers. Then go f---ing wait for 6 months to see a doctor for anything not life threatening. And no offense, but the English have got to be the a ss-ugliest looking people who ever were. I guess 2000 years of isolation on an island gave them few options.

Immigration: Stop worrying about a few fish in the Rio Grande. I say build a f---ing moat. If I can put invisible dog fencing around 1 acre in 5 hours to keep my dog in, I KNOW I can build a moat in a few weeks.

Overspending: Cut 10% of government jobs today. If you are an agency head and open your mouth, you're first to go. Corporations do it every f---ing day.

Campaign Reform: You want to run for PResident, fine. But you quit your Senate job to do it. Then you won't have f---ing idiots like Kerry throwing the election because he's scared to swing at the pitch since he had so much to lose. If you lose, go make some f---ing money and if we miss you that much, come back in 6 years.

that's what I would do.

Cannon Shell 06-26-2007 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SentToStud
They're certainly being seized out of suburban Baghdad daily.

Last I looked Baghdad wasn't a part of America

SentToStud 06-26-2007 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
Last I looked Baghdad wasn't a part of America

Sure it is. East Virginia. Just not an official state. Yet.

Downthestretch55 06-26-2007 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SentToStud
Sure it is. East Virginia. Just not an official state. Yet.

Is it an "unofficial American protectorate"?

Cannon Shell 06-26-2007 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SentToStud
Sure it is. East Virginia. Just not an official state. Yet.

Dont tell GPK

Cannon Shell 06-26-2007 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Downthestretch55
Is it an "unofficial American protectorate"?

It is the new Guam

Danzig 06-26-2007 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
It is the new Guam

well, now that you mention it, what's up with the old guam?

Cannon Shell 06-26-2007 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig
well, now that you mention it, what's up with the old guam?

Still sunny I suppose

Downthestretch55 06-26-2007 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig
well, now that you mention it, what's up with the old guam?

I haven't looked lately but I think some interesting sea birds make their nests there. Blue footed boobies.
Now I need to find another link.;)

SentToStud 06-26-2007 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Downthestretch55
Is it an "unofficial American protectorate"?

You'd have to ask the families of the dead Iraqi innocents what they call it. Somewhere between 70,000 and 650,000, depending on what you read.

Downthestretch55 06-26-2007 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SentToStud
You'd have to ask the families of the dead Iraqi innocents what they call it. Somewhere between 70,000 and 650,000, depending on what you read.

S2S,
That's what I've heard. My guess is that besides the 2 million that have fled their country, the innocent people of Baghdad aren't really getting much protection. At least 40% of the neighborhoods have been secured.
So, I guess that the "surge" has been 40% successful.
Finally, we're getting back around to the discussion of Cheney! Any thoughts on his statements that contributed to the US invasion? Or the no-bid Halliburton contract? i'm thinking that "karma" is catching up to Big Dick for all the wonderful things he's done.

Danzig 06-26-2007 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SentToStud
You'd have to ask the families of the dead Iraqi innocents what they call it. Somewhere between 70,000 and 650,000, depending on what you read.


you know, that's a lot of room between those two numbers...

i find it kind of funny tho (not in a ha ha sort of way funny) that we go in and trash the place, and now so many just want us to go hey, get your act together so we can go.

i didn't know that we were quitters when times got tough, that's for sure.

oh, it's hard, we need to leave.

that said by many of the same who think we should 'DO SOMETHING' about darfur. til that got hard....

timmgirvan 06-26-2007 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk
Ah, Timm, one can always count on you to toss out regurgitated Rush Limbaugh with nothing to back it up. I'll go check the Margaret Sanger thread since I think you've posted on it since then. ;)

GR: I'm directing your icy gaze to posts #35-36, where Baba and Stud pointed out the ineffectual work that has(or hasn't) happened since the "New Conscience" took over Congress! The new math Dems have done one amazing thing.....they've stretched 100 hrs into damn near 8months with nary a constructive thing done!

GenuineRisk 06-26-2007 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bababooyee
The people are in charge hardly have open contempt for government. They see government (ie "legal" force) as a tool for furthering their agenda...hell, the Bush administration has expanded the size of the federal government at a rate that compares only to FDR (and he may have even surpassed FDR at this point). The only difference is that liberals don't agree with the current admins agenda, but they certainly have no problem using government (ie "legal" force) to further their own agenda(s). That is why I don't get the term "neo-con", as conservatives generally stand against big government, etc. "Neo-liberal" makes much more sense to me.

Either way, this is something I don't understand about many liberals. We can bring up crummy administrations throughout our history - other presidents besides Bush have trampled the Constitution, infringed on our rights, etc. (some of them Democrats even <gasp> ). However, Bush has or should have highlighted for you how government has and will continue to be abused. Historically, the temptation and abuse of government power attracts more as$holes than not. Also, as Bush should also now highlight, advocating central power in government for things you want is tantamount to advocating that same amount of power in the hands of your enemy. Proof is in the pudding, as they say. We can simply say, "Well, I just don't like the way the 'neo-cons' are using the power; power in and of itself is not a bad thing so long as it is applied correctly." Fine, but, as I said, history shows that government power attracts more as$holes than not, so if the government should have this power, at the very, very best, from time to time it will get in the hands of as$holes (some may say it is with as$holes most of the time), and it will be abused - and Bush is hardly an illustration of the worst possible case. So, why or why do liberals still think that government is the solution to many of our problems?

But see, here is where I think 30 years' of propaganda in the wake of Watergate has radically affected the average American's view of what government can and can't do, and the fact that we can't seem to remember beyond ten minutes ago doesn't help. FDR was far from perfect (attempting to stuff the Supreme Court with 15 justices comes to mind), but look what government stepped in to do during the Great Depression- instituted Social Security, which, for all the current dour predictions, is one of the single most successful social programs ever created (and a model of efficiency). The WPA, which put thousands and thousands of people back to work in jobs created by the government, building roads, digging ditches, creating dams. We scream now about the evils of socialism, but in the 1930's, especially with 25 percent of America out of work and bread lines around the block, socialism was seen by many as the solution. FDR's government programs saved capitalism in the US. JFK's administration set us towards the moon. Nixon's brought about Title IX, and for all the screaming from the right about it, it's been a very, very valuable program for thousands of girls all over the country- girls who play sports are less likely to wind up in abusive relationships or get pregnant as teenagers. These are extraordinary things government accomplishes.

Goood government is a great thing. Bad government isn't. And yes, lots and lots of bad people go into government. And they become bosom buddies with people in big business and soon we're awash in crony capitalism. But to shrug and say, well, power corrupts, therefore government is for bunk is, I think, indicative of another American trait, which is that we hate complexity and we want results right away. Something goes wrong and we want to throw it out, rather than repair it. But we've been blessed with years and years of prosperity, thanks to the wise government of past administration (and, unfortunately, to cheap oil, thanks to the unwise government of those same administrations, which has created a whole wealth of new problems), and I think we get complacent and forget how long it can take to make things better, because we haven't really had anything all that wrong for so long. And so we blame government for all our problems, and think we'd be better off without it. And the media continues to villanize everything government does and we all stop thinking of government as a tool of the people and think of it as the enemy.

And maybe so many crooks and liars wouldn't get voted in if more than half of the population would bother to turn out to vote. Or read up on the issues. Or vote based on more than, "I just don't like him/her. I can't explain it." Or if more than a thousandth of them would bother to write their Congressman once in a while. Did any of the DTers who posted about their political leanings- specifically, that they don't care if gays get married, ever think to write their Congressman to that effect? Again, complacent.

Anyway, my eight dollars of opinion. Good government, good. Bad government, bad. Up to us to decide which is which.

timmgirvan 06-26-2007 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk
But see, here is where I think 30 years' of propaganda in the wake of Watergate has radically affected the average American's view of what government can and can't do, and the fact that we can't seem to remember beyond ten minutes ago doesn't help. FDR was far from perfect (attempting to stuff the Supreme Court with 15 justices comes to mind), but look what government stepped in to do during the Great Depression- instituted Social Security, which, for all the current dour predictions, is one of the single most successful social programs ever created (and a model of efficiency). The WPA, which put thousands and thousands of people back to work in jobs created by the government, building roads, digging ditches, creating dams. We scream now about the evils of socialism, but in the 1930's, especially with 25 percent of America out of work and bread lines around the block, socialism was seen by many as the solution. FDR's government programs saved capitalism in the US. JFK's administration set us towards the moon. Nixon's brought about Title IX, and for all the screaming from the right about it, it's been a very, very valuable program for thousands of girls all over the country- girls who play sports are less likely to wind up in abusive relationships or get pregnant as teenagers. These are extraordinary things government accomplishes.

Goood government is a great thing. Bad government isn't. And yes, lots and lots of bad people go into government. And they become bosom buddies with people in big business and soon we're awash in crony capitalism. But to shrug and say, well, power corrupts, therefore government is for bunk is, I think, indicative of another American trait, which is that we hate complexity and we want results right away. Something goes wrong and we want to throw it out, rather than repair it. But we've been blessed with years and years of prosperity, thanks to the wise government of past administration (and, unfortunately, to cheap oil, thanks to the unwise government of those same administrations, which has created a whole wealth of new problems), and I think we get complacent and forget how long it can take to make things better, because we haven't really had anything all that wrong for so long. And so we blame government for all our problems, and think we'd be better off without it. And the media continues to villanize everything government does and we all stop thinking of government as a tool of the people and think of it as the enemy.

And maybe so many crooks and liars wouldn't get voted in if more than half of the population would bother to turn out to vote. Or read up on the issues. Or vote based on more than, "I just don't like him/her. I can't explain it." Or if more than a thousandth of them would bother to write their Congressman once in a while. Did any of the DTers who posted about their political leanings- specifically, that they don't care if gays get married, ever think to write their Congressman to that effect? Again, complacent.

Anyway, my eight dollars of opinion. Good government, good. Bad government, bad. Up to us to decide which is which.

But of course the general population is too stupid to think, and they don't have all the facts.....So just let the Dems think for you and everything will be fine:eek: Don't forget posts 35-36!

skippy3481 06-26-2007 08:27 PM

DTS,
I didn't post for a reason. I don't really have enough information to accurately state how i feel about cheney. Do i like him as a person... NO? Do I like him as a vice president... I don't know. But instead of writing a paragraph about something I don't have a firm opinion on, I simply passed. Posting articles without comment is absolutely a waste a time, bu its fine I'll just put you on ignore and forget about it.

GR,
I agree that people posting articles is a good thing;however my premise still stands, I dont want just articles, i want the posters comment on the article. When you post articles you at least put your on idea's at the bottom. DTS has some valid points, but the problem is wading through postings of just articles to get to something interesting. But thats just me, and bababooyee, that was exactly what i meant.

timmgirvan 06-26-2007 09:42 PM

Skippy: Bud, there's no reason to put people on ignore! It's just a conversation,hopefully!

Downthestretch55 06-27-2007 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skippy3481
DTS,
I didn't post for a reason. I don't really have enough information to accurately state how i feel about cheney. Do i like him as a person... NO? Do I like him as a vice president... I don't know. But instead of writing a paragraph about something I don't have a firm opinion on, I simply passed. Posting articles without comment is absolutely a waste a time, bu its fine I'll just put you on ignore and forget about it.

GR,
I agree that people posting articles is a good thing;however my premise still stands, I dont want just articles, i want the posters comment on the article. When you post articles you at least put your on idea's at the bottom. DTS has some valid points, but the problem is wading through postings of just articles to get to something interesting. But thats just me, and bababooyee, that was exactly what i meant.

Skippy,
I am not sure you will read this if you have me on ignore.
With due respect, all I will say is that the links I posted, especially the one from the Washington Post, and also the one that reports on Rahm Emmanuel's position regarding defunding the executive portion of the vice president's share should he claim to not be a part of the executive branch (an thus subject to oversite), because in my humble view, these events are currently in the "news" and perhaps would spark discussion.
We should be entitled to agree or disagree on relevant topics. Providing information (and opinion) on those topics is suitable. Perhaps it might not be of interest to you, nor something that you wish to comment on. That's up to you to decide.
Respectfully,
DTS

GenuineRisk 06-27-2007 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timmgirvan
GR: I'm directing your icy gaze to posts #35-36, where Baba and Stud pointed out the ineffectual work that has(or hasn't) happened since the "New Conscience" took over Congress! The new math Dems have done one amazing thing.....they've stretched 100 hrs into damn near 8months with nary a constructive thing done!

And I'll direct your gaze to this link, about why nothing has been happening in Congress. Well, lookie there...

http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com...ves/11270.html


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