You've been on these boards ever since I first started posting last March. If after all this time you think that I was one of the study guys, well you're just not too bright. I was the guy studying the study.

Those guys actually were quite clever and would not have blown their cover in such a clumsy fashion.

Hard to say because he has so few. I am getting a few freebies next spring from a friend in KY, but if I had to pay I would look at Strategic Mission in NY. I think he is only a few thousand.

DTS is a total liar. ArlJim is not Kingofturfway. Although I am beginning to suspect DTS is mentally ill. So give him a break.

at this point Strategic Mission is very affordable. and Showing Up nicked to a C+...goes to show you that nicks are only a part of the evaluation process of a mating...i believe Behaving Badly was a C+ nick as well, so it pays to look at the big picture, including nicks, when evaluating the potential of a mating.

"Dope."

..This might be the key word of your entire sentence.....I know Kip Deville from the Louisiana/Texas area and he is not the kind of horse that is good enough to go 1:08 and change and still hold off most of these type of quality turf horses....that horse was breathing fire in the stretch...

Showing Up has MOUNDS of class...what a freakin' nice horse.....I love this horse and we'll see him for a while too (baring serious injury) because of his blue collar, obscure pedigree....his stud value isn't much until he wins a couple of important Gr. I's...

Breathing fire? Joel you lost me there. Of course he was, and he still dug in for the place after setting a blistering pace. Rick moves horses up, thats why they bought him, with that hope. Obviously hes not the same horse now he was then. Unless you think its irrational to believe that Rick move dhim way up off the other guy.

Wrong.

That was a freak effort....someone will head him next time and he'll go straight backwards....first time Dutrow is as powerful an angle as there is in horse racing....I'll take Class (Showing Up) over Meds nine out of ten times...I don't see Kip Deville running big in the Va. Derby and he certainly won't beat Showing Up, who is arguably still improving.....if he was going to beat him it would have been today IMO.....he is a run-off type of horse and that's the way he has to race...just look at his PPs...I've seen this horse race a few times....he is a feast or famine type and will throw-up after being pressured through a nuts half-mile in the Va. Derby next out.....

Exactly...

No, as I mentioned, first-time Dutrow is one of the best betting angles in our sport....just like first time Cole Norman, etc.....I won't elaborate on why I think they are so good with almost every horse they claim/acquire off of any other trainers in North America...

Right, of course you won't. It couldnt be the legal stuff he uses like adequan, legend, lubrisyn, the very best blacksmith alive. It coulodnt be that every horse he gest who is off behind gets a glutial blister like only DR all can give em. Couldnt be the dietary supplements or the fact that he got a blueprint on how to train top horses from Bobby Frankel who used to ship into Ricks barn before he stabled in NY full time in the summer and tell him what he wanted done and how to do it. Nah, couldnt be that.
Comparing him to Norman is quite unfair. How many grade ones or champs has Norman trained?

What kind of meds are you referring to? Lubrisyn? Or something illegal?

The dope doesn't bother me, the lack of respect for Showing Up does. He was much the best and people aren't giving him the respect he deserves. I believe the plan is for Showing Up to run at 4. I guess if he won the 4 races and the $5 million bonus then he might be retired to stud. He isn't that big, only 15.3 hands, just like Strategic Mission, but he has a great demeanor and a really nice turn of foot. People forget but SM is a Mr. Prospector. Not exactly garbage, and a TV Commercial (3rd in derby) mare on the bottom isn't bad either. I can't see anyone beating him unti the BC. No three year old is in his league on the turf.

Norman and Dutrow are the same...they just get a different range of horse flesh due to the geographic area and circuit both cater to.....my trainers give my horses every med and supplement you mentioned above and he doesn't get the same results as Dutrow and he has been training for 35 yeras and is very sharp......lets face it, he is using more than hay, oates and water......

No comment......but I question your horse intuition if you can seriously type your keypad and write this question without flinching....you must be a good poker player, or, a bad horse analysts...

Based on my knowledge of breeding, he has a long way to go to get to a breeding level that will be satisfactory to Lael Stable....look at Silver Charm and Skip Away...they were both better horses than Showing Up but they both suffered in the breeding shed because they both had inferior pedigrees,,,

...Showing Up has a poor and noncommercial pedigree and won't be priced well in the market until he accomplishes far more than he has at this point....that is just a fact....by the way, Silver Charm and Skip Away were busts at stallions, obviously....

Who are your trainers?

Some cajun inbred he thinks as is as sharp as Rick Dutrow. Delusional lad that he is.

The guy from Thorograph states that turf horses don't bounce as much and tend to run numbers in tighter groups. That may be an extraordinary effort for KD and he may bounce, but it may not be as big of a bounce as you think...

wansnt there some guy on here that was flying in with a group with intentions of kip running BIG...he sure did...thanks for the info..

MP3 was the guy. I think he owns horses with IEAH to. KD is a nice horse but unless he learns to rate, he will never beat a top horse on the turf.