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-   -   Jara on thin ice with Al Maktoum (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11531)

Cajungator26 04-02-2007 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Payson Dave
wow that's nice...but all I wanted was a Bud Lite

Bud Light is my drink of choice too. ;)

philcski 04-02-2007 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grits
But, Linny, THIS did not happen. Fernando does know the horse. And Frankie, of course, had no horse in this particular event. He did not fire.



Again, this did not happen. Invasor was his usual game self!



And I do not see that Jara has failed to do so, as of yet. This premiere SIX MILLION dollar race is OVER. This race was run exceptionally well, and the mistake made here is not by his jockey, Fernando Jara, not at all. There was no mistake made here but the one made by the spoiled rich dude from the desert that thinks Jara could have made a better grandstand showing of pushing his horse harder to get more air between the rest of the field.

The oil rich Arabian dressing down a 19 year old young man. All for WHAT?

Jim you were correct in your summation in your first post.

I get discouraged when fans offer up the what-ifs and other scenarios to jockeys, when the race has been run-- most especially when they've done their jobs and done them quite well.

I know that you know racing and pace, but the Arab's comments are wrong, he showed no grace, and that's unfortunate.

Let the Arab ride Invasor next time, but then that'd be a bust 'cause he couldn't ride a hog thru a phone booth.

Whats with the racial sensitivity out of everyone all of a sudden?!?
Maybe it's a bit mistoned of Grits to call him an Arab but damn, I'd just call him a JACKASS for making this kind of comment. If someone called me a "Guido" after I made a ridiculous statement like the Sheikh did I'd be ok with it.

I honestly thought this was some kind of April Fools' joke when I read it. The kid rode a perfect race, and they won. What else do you want, him to drill some more oil wells for you while he's on the far turn?!?

Cajungator26 04-02-2007 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philcski
Whats with the racial sensitivity out of everyone all of a sudden?!?
Maybe it's a bit mistoned of Grits to call him an Arab but damn, I'd just call him a JACKASS for making this kind of comment. If someone called me a "Guido" after I made a ridiculous statement like the Sheikh did I'd be ok with it.

I honestly thought this was some kind of April Fools' joke when I read it. The kid rode a perfect race, and they won. What else do you want, him to drill some more oil wells for you while he's on the far turn?!?

Because it shouldn't matter what his descent is. If he's a dickhead, then so be it, but why is it necessary to keep referring to him as an Arab? I just think that there were a couple of lines in that post and in Seattleallstar's post that were uncalled for.

brianwspencer 04-02-2007 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philcski
Whats with the racial sensitivity out of everyone all of a sudden?!?
Maybe it's a bit mistoned of Grits to call him an Arab but damn, I'd just call him a JACKASS for making this kind of comment. If someone called me a "Guido" after I made a ridiculous statement like the Sheikh did I'd be ok with it.

I honestly thought this was some kind of April Fools' joke when I read it. The kid rode a perfect race, and they won. What else do you want, him to drill some more oil wells for you while he's on the far turn?!?

It's that his ethnicity has absolutely nothing to do with it. Zero. So saying "The oil rich Arabian" and then "Let the Arab ride Invasor next time," smacks of crudeness.

Would anyone here say "The Black scored 50 points" after Kobe Bryant had a big game? Nope, because his being Black has nothing to do with it all. Odd choice when a simple word like "he" would have sufficed.

ArlJim78 04-02-2007 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpops757
While I agree that his looking back didnt hinder his rally. A question though? If this wast a "Target Race", what would you call it? The shiek might sound crazy, but he does have a valid point. You try to fix something before its broke. Jara is a good fit for this monster but lets fine tune it a little better. Nineteen and still learning. Wasntt this something that could help him in the future?

In general I agree. I HATE when I see the jockey on my horse lookiing back. Usually there is no reason for it other than showmanship, because they know they're going to win easy.

I just don't think Jara was showboating, doesn't seem to be his style. I think he was just being careful.

It would have been better for the Sheikh to have made these comments in private to Fernando. Its bad form to say it in the press especially in light of the fact that they've got something special here that is working. Not to say that they can't get better, and they should discuss the tactics, etc, with him.

I am sort suspicious that this public statement is a pretext to give the mount to someone else. not sure, but you've got to believe that the big guns are salivating at the prospect of getting on board this guy.

miraja2 04-02-2007 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArlJim78
In general I agree. I HATE when I see the jockey on my horse lookiing back. Usually there is no reason for it other than showmanship, because they know they're going to win easy.

I just don't think Jara was showboating, doesn't seem to be his style. I think he was just being careful.

It would have been better for the Sheikh to have made these comments in private to Fernando. Its bad form to say it in the press especially in light of the fact that they've got something special here that is working. Not to say that they can't get better, and they should discuss the tactics, etc, with him.

I am sort suspicious that this public statement is a pretext to give the mount to someone else. not sure, but you've got to believe that the big guns are salivating at the prospect of getting on board this guy.

Given Discreet Cat's reputation, it seems logical that FJ was trying to figure out where that one was and what the hell he was doing.
Making a change now wouldn't make sense to me.

Cajungator26 04-02-2007 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Payson Dave


I'll bring the beer:D

Awww... I got flowers twice over the past couple of weeks! I'm dumbfounded! :o

philcski 04-02-2007 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cajungator26
Because it shouldn't matter what his descent is. If he's a dickhead, then so be it, but why is it necessary to keep referring to him as an Arab? I just think that there were a couple of lines in that post and in Seattleallstar's post that were uncalled for.

Fair enough, and of course race has nothing to do with it, however the Sheikh's statement is ALSO uncalled for. They won the dang race, what else does he want? For Invasor to do cartwheels across the finish line? The jock has won the BC Classic, the Belmont, and now the Dubai WC for him in the last 10 months.

The Sheikhs bring their criticism on themselves, IMO, for throwing their fabulous wealth in everyone's face all the time. If you need proof, go to Keeneland in a couple weeks and you'll see his private "jet"... which is actually a 747 the size of the Lexington terminal (and actually not even commissioned to land at LEX.)

Grits 04-02-2007 02:37 PM

Brian, please, yes if you will, accept my apology for the offense and for offending you and others. Since, you all have chosen to take my remarks as such.

In the future though, when you all refer to "he" as an idiot, a ******, or a pinhead, please understand . . . no I do not find those racial, but I can assure you, I do not believe those to be the Christ like words or beliefs of which, you, in particular, spoke of a night or two ago. I find it unusual how people can be so politically correct in one regard, yet fall so short in another.

Either way, again, I am sorry.

Pants, may soon be here to point at me once again, stating "don't feed the troll."


Quote:

Originally Posted by brianwspencer
It's that his ethnicity has absolutely nothing to do with it. Zero. So saying "The oil rich Arabian" and then "Let the Arab ride Invasor next time," smacks of crudeness.

Would anyone here say "The Black scored 50 points" after Kobe Bryant had a big game? Nope, because his being Black has nothing to do with it all. Odd choice when a simple word like "he" would have sufficed.


Cajungator26 04-02-2007 02:40 PM

Ok, guys... Kumbaya.

brianwspencer 04-02-2007 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grits

In the future though, when you all refer to "he" as an idiot, a ******, or a pinhead, please understand . . . no I do not find those racial, but I can assure you, I do not believe those to be the Christ like words or beliefs of which, you, in particular, spoke of a night or two ago. I find it unusual how people can be so politically correct in one regard, yet fall so short in another.


Pants, may soon be here to point at me once again, stating "don't feed the troll."

I never have, and would never call someone a ******. Nor have I ever used the word pinhead.

When someone is called an idiot, it has nothing to do with political correctness. It has everything to do with them acting like an idiot.

That was A-game material though, using my faith to justify your actions. I see the logic. Someone acts like an idiot, and gets called an idiot = Arab. That qualified for the "Most-Irrelevant-and-Illogical-Conclusion-Contained-in-a-Single-Post of the Year" award: DT Edition.

But speaking of those awards, I hate losing at anything, so here goes:

I like cheese, therefore you want slavery brought back.

I win.

MisterB 04-02-2007 02:59 PM

Rookie mistake to look back. No need to, if your doing your job. Stay focused on your horse, never mind the others, you got enough to worry about. I agree, it is tough enough to train a horse, let alone let a jockey train one during a race. yes, horses get mixed up on the signals, and could make that refusal later down the line. so Jara learned a good leason here.

SentToStud 04-02-2007 03:01 PM

I think Jara is probably lucky to have kept the mount after the Donn. Another inch or two there,....

I can see that ride getting on the owner's next-to-last nerve.

Personally, I thought Jara would do better than he has at Gulfstream. If it wasn't for K McL, he'd be...?

pmayjr 04-02-2007 03:02 PM

I get the feeling that the Sheik demands perfection and really doesn't have that much of a problem with Jara. Watching that race, I thought it was Invasor itself (in a Seabiscuit type of way), that toyed with Premium Tap. That was the reason why he only drew even and not ahead til the end. In my eyes, Premium Tap was game ll the way home, but Invasor just pulled even to stare him and down and then stick out 2 fingers and say "peace!" lol.

But if you wanted to play devil's advocate, how much do you blame Jara for his ride in the Donn? If you wanna go for jocks that don't deserve to ride their mounts, Kent D. shouldn't have been allowed to ride Premium Tap ever again after the Kentucky Cup at Turfway last year. But there he was on him in Dubai.

miraja2 04-02-2007 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grits
Brian, please, yes if you will, accept my apology for the offense and for offending you and others. Since, you all have chosen to take my remarks as such.

In the future though, when you all refer to "he" as an idiot, a ******, or a pinhead, please understand . . . no I do not find those racial, but I can assure you, I do not believe those to be the Christ like words or beliefs of which, you, in particular, spoke of a night or two ago. I find it unusual how people can be so politically correct in one regard, yet fall so short in another.

Either way, again, I am sorry.

Pants, may soon be here to point at me once again, stating "don't feed the troll."

You are absolutely right! I heard that Jesus hated the term "pinhead."
This attempted apology does not make up for your racist comments earlier. If anything it further demonstrates how little you get it.

Seattleallstar 04-02-2007 03:11 PM

black people seem to always get this pass all the time

robfla 04-02-2007 03:14 PM

not mentioning names, but ......isnt posting someone's comments as their signature just not right?

SentToStud 04-02-2007 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robfla
not mentioning names, but ......isnt posting someone's comments as their signature just not right?

Bogie's been gone a long time.

Cajungator26 04-02-2007 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seattleallstar
black people seem to always get this pass all the time

Jerry, stop instigating.

ArlJim78 04-02-2007 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grits
Brian, sorry sweetheart had the owner been French, I would have stated, "the Frenchman". Had the owner been English, "the Englishman or "the Brit". The owner an Australian, "the Aussie." The owner, a black African American, "the American."

You'd do better not attempting, in this particular case, to insult my intelligence.

That is why I find your comment to be drivel. Simply put, you are wrong.

Now, how good are you at apologizing?

Done here.

"The oil rich Arabian dressing down a 19 year old young man. All for WHAT?"

"I know that you know racing and pace, but the Arab's comments are wrong, he showed no grace, and that's unfortunate."

"Let the Arab ride Invasor next time, but then that'd be a bust 'cause he couldn't ride a hog thru a phone booth."

__________________________________________________ __________
Here is the problem Grits. I think you have a valid comment about the owner not showing grace or knowing how to ride a horse.

BUT, when you start referring to him as "Arab", and throwing in that he is "oil rich", these things have nothing to do with your points and make it appear that you are anti arab. I'm not saying you are by the way.

Where I'm from we don't talk like that, it just really sounds bad in my view and is not appropriate. You liken it to using Frenchman, Aussie, etc, but that seems strange to substitute Frenchman or Aussie in place of a known person with a name. It comes across as denigrating.

Also, an Arab is not from a particular country, its just a person from a country in the Arab speaking world so its not the same as saying Frenchman. It sounds as if you are unnecessarily trying to draw attention to his ethnicity. It would be like if the Sheikh referred to Jara as "the latino". He didn't, he called him by name.

Look I'm not accusing you of trying to be denigrating, from knowing you on here I really don't think that was your purpose. I am just saying that to myself and others, thats what it sounds like when someone talks like that.


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