I never take what you or Zig say all that seriously. I realize you are from Texas, and she is living in Arkansas. You're both gunna have neck thinking contamination(no matter what.) It just can't be helped.O.K. You're gunna laugh at that, but look at what you preach:

"You dont make stronger middle class through government redistribution of wealth. You make a stronger middle class by changing ideas."


I mean it's simply asanine for you to keep repeating something that's been disproved for so long now. What exactly do you think the progressive tax system is now doing for the middle class as compared to the rich? IT'S STRENGTHENING IT. You don't think it's redistributing wealth to charge a lower % income tax on the middle class than on the rich? It is, sir, and doing it will continue to strengthen the middle class. You couldn't afford to be a teacher if their wasn't redistribution of wealth. You think in a free market system (that you so boldly say works for everyone all the time) you would be able to get that pension? No. That's forced income redistribution. That's not the way people would act if left to their own greed. You would get no pension of any real quality. People are too cheap to pay teachers a decent pension. They are forced(by wealth redistribution) to pay teachers the salaries n' pensions they are paying them. You don't even realize that your benefiting from what you say doesn't work(wealth redistribution.) It's working for you. Teachers getting paid a reasonable salary and good pension is a very good example of wealth redistribution. You may not think it's much wealth, but it's a lot more than you would get in a free market situation. People don't choose to pay you that. They are mandated to pay you through taxes. That's wealth redistribution. If it was up to the free market, you would get maybe 3/4 what you get now, and you'd get a handshake out the door when you retire. That's it.

I say he's tapping Becky Quick.....

This is the Coach Pants i like.

Listen im not blind to the fact that corruption is bipartisan. I dont think Obama can live up to a lot he has promised. None of them ever do.

I just think that obama would do a better job of representing us in the next four years based on his policies and based on the way he presents himself.

Personally, McCain's plan will do better for ME. Bush has done GREAT for me. At the same time, I worry about this country longterm.

LOL I think you might have a point.

I also drive the Japanese car. A 1996.
I would be two out of three. Small car, pud.

We should have bought American?

It's gotta low profile,though.

AMT is not good, it is misguided and outdated and needs to be at least altered to the times.

Warren Buffet's opinion is the opinion of a guy who sits a long ways away from the real world of the "middle class". Maybe he is simply he is a typical billionaire who feels guilty about making so much money. The Bleeding heart billionaire.

Any extra burden on a $250k family is too much. Or should people who live in big cities where a $250k family is middle class not count?

What is interesting is that many of the same people who go absolutely nuts if a racetrack raises takeout are card carrying, raise the taxes Dems.

;)

:rolleyes:

AMT is necessary and you know it is. Altered? perhaps...but you have to agree that it is necessary.

Any burden on a 250k family is too much? How can you say this unilaterally when not taking into account many other factors?

I think your racetrack analogy is off. Bitching about takeout and bad rides is bipartisan.

You have no idea how teachers in Texas are payed.
The statement you made is absolutely silly. The Federal
Gov. pays about 2% of my wages. I just got a 3% pay increase.
Its nothing.

Scuds, who do you think pays the vast majority of my salary?
You have no idea how teachers retirement plans in Texas work either.

So you tax the hell out of wealthy people and redistribute.
So where do you start now? What is wealthy? What % of their money
do you want redistributed since the current system does not work.
What will work. Give me your plan. 50% for millionaires...? what level do you
start and what %.

that's a very good point that gets largely ignored. some parts of the country (such as here) that is a TON of money. other places, not so much. tony and i have it made down here as for the most part the cost of living is really low. my house payment is incredibly low, property down here is cheap. by the same token, the federal minimum wage stretches a lot further here than anywhere-most states min wage is higher than the federal. speaking of the minimum wage, we just had a hike on that-and is it just coincidence that unemployment grew at the same time? i know here locally it's not a coincidence. my daugher got let go a month before leaving for college, along with a coworker, due to the hike. small businesses down here couldn't handle the increase, which happened at the same time that volume was decreasing due to oil and fuel prices.

really? all that discussing further back, when we had common ground, none of that was serious? or is it only blown off when it varies with your take on things?
btw, how's medical doing lately? how much did your hospitals out there take it for again?

SCUDS we maybe in trouble..GOP is reconsidering and may taking a stab at winning California.

I really don't want my head to explode...

I dont believe that AMT is necessary but if it is going to stay (mostly for political reasons because god forbid anyone be seen as helping the "rich") than it absolutely should be adjusted to modern income levels.

How can you say that $250k is the number at which it is ok to add burden? Especially considering the wide gap in CoL throughout the country? Surely a family living in manhattan versus a family living in Montana is an important factor?

My racetrack analogy isnt off, what is the difference? Raising takeout is akin to raising taxes because in theory the extra takeout is used to make improvements or added to purses to put on a better product. But as in govt, that rarely happens and in the end all it succeeds in is taking money that would add to handle (the economy) out of circulation which shrinks handle.

i read that one poll has them neck and neck, while another has mccain ten points ahead among likely voters. the gap is smaller among registered voters.

but the debates are still to come, so we'll see. i might watch those. far more entertaining than the conventions, i didn't watch any of either one. too much rah rahing for my taste. and the folks who dress up, what's up with that?!

None that I know about.

I am in contact on a daily basis with people like this and many that are worse off than that.

How many of these people you see every day are working a 2nd job?

If they had an all nude convention I'd watch:D

You are from the state of Ronald Reagan.
And Barbara Jordan, born and raised in Texas.

Jeeezzzzzzzzzzzzz. The regional thing is getting old.

So we are infected by birth.
Just like Blacks and Mexicans.
Its just something Z and I cant help.
We were born stupid and miserly just like
blacks were born stupid and lazy. Thats it?
Yes?

even if barbara mikulski was there??

The thought of the candidates in the nude makes me wish for GPK's "I just threw up in my mouth" icon.

:cool:

I dont think you read my response at all. I said that AMT is necessary and perhaps it could be altered. If not for AMT, there are many multi millionaires that could make their effective tax rates below 20%....Less than your average middle class worker. Is that fair?

As for the 250k, it really is hard to come up with a number. I guess they settled on a number that was about four times the median household income. It would probably be better if families in areas like mine or new york, etc could work off of some kind of sliding scale.

My point about "handle" was that its not just democrats bitching about it. Everyone does.

DOD....you and I can run the all nude campaign

GPK/DOD '08
"Nude and Crude":tro:

hey, more are trying. geeker and i were just starting a nude convention discussion.
but i'm afraid i may have stopped it in its tracks with my mikulski comment...

or nude and lewd? hello!

Is she that porn star that starred in Blazing Zippers?

Care to join us babe?;)

I think we'd be "Nude and Boo'd".:D

If thats the case, forget 'em. Just be you and I nude then:{>: :{>:

You asking him about fair? LOL...He said he went through Catholic School, but slept through religion.

This is not how debates in a democratic society end.
No joking around trying to push it all under the rug.

Let us proceed to the fisticuff stage.
The physical brawl should ensue.

I did read your response. Did you not see my little rebuttals? You say AMT is necessary, I dont. We disagree and there is no way i am getting into why i think that its elimination could be covered much more effectively because i just cant type that much.

Everybody may bitch about the takeout but Dems are in effect voting for Brunetti and his takeout/tax plan.

And i didnt mean to call you out by asking about kids and im sorry if it came out that way becausee it wasnt my intention.

There are plenty of middle class i see working two full time jobs right now to make ends meet and they still can't do it.

There was a couple that just came to our bank the other day. Perfect example. Both teachers making combined 110k a year. Two young children. Only debt is their cars. They wanted to buy a house in the outer reaches. a modest four bedroom with about 2500 square feet. Totally middle class neighborhood and the house was about 500k. So lets do the math.

Gross income 9k per month

Car payments= 600 per month.

student loans= 300 per month.

mortgage payment=3500 per month

Credit card debt= zero



lets do the math here GPK. 9k gross means they are taking home about 6000 per month. Debts equal 4500 per month. Now add utitlies, phone, insurance, food, gas, etc.

This is the middle class in our area. What is wrong with this picture?

What are you a priest? Or a nun?

NOOOOO.

Obama's tax plan helps 95% of the population.

Brunetti's takeout plan only helped the house.

Now, i would favor a takeout plan that would help 95% of the players.

lol
god forbid. she's one of the senators from maryland. at least i think she's still in office.