To me was trapped with no where to go. Sure he was full of run but where was he to run? Came to the top of the lane with his ears pricked but then again nowhere to run. I thought JV did a great job to just stay on him. I bet Tabor about **** his pants when the 1 lost his jockey right in front of Quay. Quay got a slammed right out of the gate was dead last into the 1st turn, had a horse throw his jockey right in front of him and still I say close for 5th place. Won? no. 4th at best I think.

I thought CQ was out of it from the jump. He broke bad, was dead last at the first quarter, got up to about 6th or 7th at the top of the stretch before the incident in front of him. I actually thought the one that was full of run was Slews Tizzy. Hard to tell though when you have horses on the lead that are flat out of gas and horses coming up behind them. If the incident doesn't happen, I still don't believe CQ hits the board...jmo

I agree. If CQ gets through the hole on the rail cleanly(and that's a big if), I think he finishes at least 2nd and possibly even wins it. He was about to pass a lot of horses in a hurry until that horse in front of him went down. I just hope CQ didn't hurt himself trying to avoid that mess.

looked like to much traffic to me. i didn't see CQ hitting the board either.
to me what everyone is missing, was the move Albarado pulled to get Notional loose..... jmo.:confused:

How exactly does one KNOW that a horse stymied in traffic was " about to pass a lot of horses in a hurry "?

oh, where was the word KNOW in that sentence? Since he did pass all but 4 of the horses by the end of the race anyway, I think it's safe to ASSUME he would have.. you know what his PPs look like, CQ has done that in every other race he's run.

You said he was " about to pass a lot of horses in a hurry " and you said it as a statement of fact. There was no " I think " included so I think I rightfully inferred that you seemed to know it.

You may be right but we won't ever know. That is until he fails at a short price in his next start as well.

He's a closing sprinter. Three times at two turns, two less than stellar performances with VERY good setups, and one " who knows ". I guess he can pass distance challenged quitters.....but can he pass horses that are actually accelerating and not decelerating? So far he hasn't done that going two turns.

c q..1 more on the t- pleach....this is gonna be a great horse list..with the amount of stock this guy has to play with ..he gets to have the luxury of totally f ing them up and then return them to races at will..under there real level of comp..after they have been spotted well over there head intially..and no one says **** about it//

I really don't think you can make a definitive statement about him being a closing sprinter just yet. Granted the best race of his life was a sprint and he is now 0 for 3 around two turns I still want to see one more. That's just me though and I can easily see how one would be a little over him now.

I want somebody to mention how Appealing Zophie went faster than Notional today. Maybe I'm the only one who really wasn't impressed with Notional's race.

NT

You could have 'inferred' that I assumed that as well.

Just to poke fun back at you, please explain:

How exactly does one KNOW a horse Circular Quay is a 'closing sprinter" when he 1) ran his first route on Poly, 2) passes all but 1 horse in his 2nd attempt (were the other 12 all decelerating?) , 3) is 'stymied' in his latest route race?

Seriously, he may end up being exactly that, but I can't conclude that yet.

Intrigued by the ongoing fascination with inside suckup trouble trips.

I don't believe the horse who lost his jock broke down, but clipped heels with 'captain which caused the jockey to go over his head.

I basically rely on " knowing " things in this game before they are obvious to everyone else. That's the only way to make money in this game.

One could excuse his polytrack effort if it hadn't been backed up by his BC two turn effort. Since they were both similar I doubt it was the polytrack that caused him a problem. Is that absolute? No, but it makes more than reasonable sense.

I am assuming you are kidding about the BC. Have you watched it? Looked at the chart perhaps? He lost by TEN lengths. More horses finish ninth that lose by ten lengths than finish second. It's pretty fair to assume those behind him were collapsing. And, you know what? They were.

The truth about Circular Quay is that while he's certainly a very nice horse he has never done anything of note. His wins have been moderately fast and the result of unbelievably good setups. A better way to label him would be " better closing sprinter than two-turn router but not exceptional at either ".

I believe you are correct. I apologize.

I should have said " went down ".

I'd rate Ravel higher in the Pletcher barn for the Derby than Circular Quay.

can we get this re-posted in bold letters...just to make it easier to read???:D :D

I joke because I care...

I assume you know better than that. CQ lost by 10 lengths yes, but if Street Sense and CQ's trips are reversed, you very well know the distance would be much closer.

They had almost identical trips. Street Sense's was better but not by very much.

I disagree with that. CQ was 5? wide on the turn, SS skimmed the rail... a rail that many would say played favorably most of the day. To me, that's quite a few lengths difference.

With trips reversed Street Sense still wins by about five lengths in my opinion.

However, I am of the persuasion that the BC Juvenile was a once in a lifetime performance from Street Sense and he will always be trying to get back to that one race. Street Sense will be not altogether unlike Dreaming of Anna, both were horses coming into a great performance, enjoyed the best part of a biased track, and will be hard-pressed to repeat those efforts.

NT

Those were the same tired horses Street Sense was running away from. And what makes you think SS was better than him at Keeneland? SS made a clear lead at the top of the stretch then wilted.

NT

Oh I agree that the BC proved who was better on that particular day, I just think there was little to no difference that day at Keeneland. I guess that's a pretty pointless argument though. In truth what bothers me I think is the sensationalizing of Street Sense's performance in the BC. I just feel so confident that he will never, ever run back to that race. That's just me though.

NT

Street Sense ran a better race than CQ both days. I don't think there is much doubt of that if you watch both races.

Whoa, I never said CQ wins the BC with an inside trip, just that it would have been closer than 10 lengths.

By the way, for anyone who didn't see the Risen Star, you can watch a replay of it on NTRA.com

On that particular day and throughout the early part of the meet, wide late moves were the best moves, but towards the end of the meet speed started to hold better.

In this race I think the fact that it was both SS and CQ's first two-turn trip they clearly had some learning to do. Borel did allow SS to charge all the way up a bit early while CQ took the overland route again. Again, I think this particular race is a toss-up while acknowledging that SS did move too early, but the BC was a definitive statement that SS is a better horse, he crushed the entire field. I'm ready for him to get out on the track so we can see if it holds up.

NT

I think you should watch the race again....I just watched it the other day a few times. Circular Quay and Street Sense moved as a team and the most Circular Quay was wide on the turn was three wide before he angled wide as they hit the stretch.

Once again, Street Sense had a better trip but it is much closer than many people seem to believe. The bottom line is they went very fast early and most of the field simply collapsed and two were left.....one ran well ( Street Sense ) and one sucked up past the dying rest.

Not only did he move WAY too soon ( at Keeneland ) but he also blew the first turn and lost substantial, and valuable, position....while Circular Quay was sitting comfortably inside.

It was absurd how much better Street Sense ran that day.

didnt cq eek out a win vs tuflsburg... or was that scat diddy..

It was P Diddy.

I must be continuing to miss where Street Sense blew the first turn. He seems to lug out ever so slightly going into the first turn, then races three wide all the way around it. His move was very similar to what won 1 1/16 mile races at Keeneland all meet long. The shortened stretch was never great for closers, even towards the beginning of the meet.

Circular Quay raced inside much of the way, then came off the rail to avoid a quitting horse with about a 1/4 mile to go, then had to swing out and ran on nicely to run 2nd.

I just do not see AT ALL how you can say it's absurd how much better Street Sense ran that day. Without using the BC Juvenile to prove your point, I just don't agree that it was absurd how much better SS was than CQ that day. If you felt that way before November 4th then congratulations on what must have been a nice score for you in the Juvenile.

NT

NTamm....not to butt in here...but BTW was on record as choosing Street Sense as his horse of choice in the B Juvy.