Well, I put MAravich in my top 3 along with Jordan and Oscar, so there it is.

As far as xones and doubles, did you ever see Pete play in college? Guy averaged over 42 points a game EVERY year (with no 3-point line). It's not as if they didn't play any D against him in college.

He would have scored 35 a game in the NBA if he was playing now.

How good would Jordan or Oscar have been if they were playing without a left coronary artery?

I didnt know that guy who use to play for UCLA (always use to wear that headband) like 4 years ago plays in the NBA? I think he plays for the Knicks. Was always a very underrated college player.

imo, jordan.

You missed seeing Michael Jordan.

Nothing compares
Notheeeeeng compares
too you...

Sinead O'Connor.

Larry would be in the top 5 though.

you wanna see me got confrontational????:D :D :D

I saw Mike Jordan play, he was good. But Bird was Bird. More of a team player. Jordan was all about Mikey.

Hilarious.

You say I'm only looking at stats, then you list off Duncan's Cirriculum Vitae Highlights?

Look, do you think Duncan would have had great games against McHale? I don't. He played well against Malone but certainly didn't dominate him. McHale shut down a lot of very good players and would have blocked 2-3 of those 12-foot bank shots Duncan needs to survive every game. And frankly McHale in the low post would have made Duncan look really slow at times.

Hey, I'm not saying Duncan sucks; just that I wouldn't put him in my top 3 at Power Forward.

Maravich goes on the Harlem Globetrotter list... with Calvin Murphy. He did the same thing at LSU, shot the ball all the time. And I dont know how playing without a left coronary artery affected his shot. It may have affected stamina. But he played some big minutes so not too much. His injuries were not related to his heart.

Duncan can score over anybody, anytime. He has too many moves. I will say McHale had quicker pivot moves, but not Close to the left hand Duncan has. Duncan scores in everyway, McHale would have had a terribly difficult time guarding him just like Kevin Garnett does because Duncan is much much stronger in the lower body. Duncan is underrated a lot like McHale because of no flash, no hops. And yes, no Larry. McHale was helped by Larry, but I still think he was very very good.

My 1970's-80's All Funk Team
 

My all-funk team from the 70's-80's, chosen mostly for hair size and nicknames:

Center: Artis "A Train" Gilmore
Forward: George "Instant Heat" Trapp
Forward: Julius "Doctor J" Erving
Guard: Walt "Clyde" Frazier
Guard: Connie Hawkins

any all funk team that doesn't include Wolrd B. Free is an incomplete list....:cool:

Well, for all the hops, Garnett is not the greatest defensive forward there ever was. I suppose I'd be more admiring about Duncan if he played against the Eastern Conference instead of the Power-Forwardless West.

I will give you huge funk. DARNELL HILLMAN ABA... AKA DR. DUNK

check the fro.. Be sure to scroll down to catch the entirety of the funkiness

http://www.remembertheaba.com/Tribut...l/Hillman.html

Honest to God the guy could jump out of the gym. Huge hands, and huge unsophisticated dunks... just from a straight stand underneath the bucket.

Duncan trashed Ben Wallace. So they put sheed on him and brought Wallace over. Duncan can score over any center forward in the league because of the array of shots. He has the smoothest postmoves... I hate the name the big fundamental. But for a guy who started BBall late, its pretty incredible how good his footwork is.

.

I'll conclude... Duncan has always been slow and I just don't care for his game as much as others may. Plus, he always looks as if he's about to cry.

In the end, I'd rate him below Elvin Hayes but ertainly above Kurt Rambis.

....... tim makes my 2nd team as power foward........ he plays the game the way it should be played..... my 1st team goes
1. wilt chamberlain ( the most dominant athlete of all time )
2. larry bird
3.michael jordan
4. jerry west
5. ervin johnson

2nd team
1. lew alcindor
2. tim duncan
3. elgin baylor
4. kobe bryant
5. oscar robertson

Tim Duncan is overrated, keep in mind Andres Nocioni made him his bitch along with Kevin Garnett.

Wheres Hakeem O, Billy Cunningham, a whole host of others.



Most overrated NBA player imo has to be Robert Parish

When discussing Kevin McHale, it's important to note that most of his prime years came when he was playing with Larry Bird. It's important because McHale was never the focal point of the offense. If he had been, I have little doubt that he would have gone on to erase a lot of the doubts people have about him. He was one of the best inside men I've ever seen. Footwork was second to none, save for maybe Hakeem Olajuwon. He didn't commit to rebounding as much as I would have liked but defensively, he was far above average. I don't know exactly where I would rank him against Karl Malone and Charles Barkley but for my money, those are the three best ever. And I'd take all three over Tim Duncan or Kevin Garnett in a heartbeat. That's not to say that Duncan and Garnett aren't all-time great players because they are. But not with those other three in my opinion. My selections for an all-time 12 man roster:

1st team
c-Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
f-Hakeem Olajuwon
f-Larry Bird
g-John Stockton
g-Michael Jordan

2nd team
c-Wilt Chamberlain
f-Bill Russell
f-Charles Barkley
g-Magic Johnson
g-Pete Maravich

last two
Oscar Robertson
Dennis Rodman

People who have watched Duncan and are not astounded with the footwork just dont know basketball. That what I gotta conclude. Both hands with the baby hook straight in, off the backboard...

There just are no other big men that had/have extensive use of both hands like Duncan, which requires the ability to be able to pivot off either foot equally well. Therefore, best footwork EVER. And best hands ever. You can throw him a pass in almost any position and he catches it without a bobble thus allowing him to get a move in quickly before he gets closed in on. I will admit he is physically he is in his downhill years.

Hakeem had great pivot moves in that they were so quick, and used for his little fall away or a move back to the basket. But no use of both hands for either McHale or Hakeem.

Im sorry, but its not close. Not at all. Ive watched all of these guys extensively (ie their entire careers)

What is astounding about Hakeem is he was absolutely terrible as a freshman at UH. His soccer skills must have added in his very steep learning curve. People also used to compare Patrick Ewing with Hakeem. This is also a joke. Ewing was not even close to the player Hakeem was. Ewing was terribly immobile in comparison to the aforementioned. He had a very good baseline jumpshot which allowed him to remain a competent center well after his athleticism left him.

TB, how old are you??

bro, I think the world of you, but unless you saw LB night in and night out, like myself and a few others on here, you really have NO idea of how good he really was. I can remember watch him play and players from the OTHER TEAM were giving each other high fives over the shots and plays that he would make. And please, understand another thing, Bird played in the NBA when it was still a TEAM game. The crap that they play in the NBA now is nothing near the game they played in the 80's. If Bird played today's version of the game and took the same selfish approach that too many of these players now take, he would have averaged 35-38 points a night with his eyes closed. But again, he played under a team concept and simply made other players around him so much better.

Lebron (hopefully) has a long time left in his career to prove that he is one of the greats of all time.

I lost any respect I had for Lebron the night he walked off the court early in a loss. Incredibly selfish move that typifies todays NBA player.

I promise you that many people my age a older on this board will echo this sentiment, but there wasn't a harder worker on the court than LB. No one in the game gave 100% night in a night out like that guy.

If you want to see what a real basketball TEAM looked like, go back and watch some games from the 1986 Celtics....at your age, you would be amazed at the ball movement you will see from those guys. 6 and 7 passes AFTER half court before anyone even shot the ball. Now, you are lucky to see 2 passes before some wannabe is chucking up a shot. That team from 1986 could beat teams anyway they wanted to....slow it down and play a half court game, they could run if needed, they could play defense...you name, they did it.

Don't forget the TrailBlazers champ team...they're a prime example of teamwork at its' best!

as an interesting side note, bit of trivia...

Bill Hodges, who was Larry's coach at Indiana State now is living here in Roanoke teaching government at a local high school.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BOAwpMZKpk

from the 1:22-1:42 seconds of this video still gives me chill bumps. Got love Johnny Most doing the call.

Absolutely he is better than Lebron at this point. Lebron is still young and a much better athlete. But at this point Bird was a better, shooter, passer, and rebounder. And more important than anything else, Bird made everyone on the team better. Lebron does a pretty good job at that, better than Kobe up to this point.

Bird had a wonderful feel for the game. He knew when to take his time, pounce, he is the most instinctive player I have ever seen.

also league MVP for 3 straight years...85, 86, 87.

Pat, wouldn't you agree that the biggest thing that made him one of the greats was just his total court awareness and vision?

Absolutely. And he just knew the game. He could not even jump that well but would outrebound guys because he knew exactly how to body them up. He got more out of that body than anyone would think possible. A total gym rat.

His hands were also amazing Kev. He is the guy you would want to start a TEAM with. He is the best TEAM player of all time imo. Michael learned that from him. Michael would score all these points early in his career and not win big games which he very badly wanted to do. Bird showed him the way in early confrontations. And then Michael with the right people around him, Pippen, especially, became THE total package.

Oh yes I must add I hated Bird with a passion. One of the biggest trash-talkers of all time.

He just simply outworked, outplayed and outsmarted other players.

Pat, do you remember the interview the did with Xavier (X-Man) McDaniel? They were talking about Larry and the end of game situations. X said something along the lines of...

....Larry knew he was getting the ball, you knew Larry was getting the ball. Larry would come tell you he was getting the ball, he would tell you where he was gonna shoot it from and then he would tell you that he was gonna bury the shot in your face....and after he made the shot, all you could do was walk off the court and shake your head.


LB was never afraid to talk trash, but no one backed it up like he did.

Kev there is more than the interview. They have the microphone down on the court and a camera on Bird and McDaniel when Bird was cussing him and vice versa. Bird said I am going to shoot a bleepin 3 on you from right here you bleep. And McDaniel bleepity bleeped back. and bird took the inbounds pass and shot the 3 right where he had pointed and made it. And the thing is Bird just ran off after that. He would cuss you during the game, but after he abused somebody, he would just walk away. He was also famous for spitting. Bird spit on fans in San Antonio and got fined. He was an a-hole.

how many of his peers had no respect for him? maybe 1 or 2

As a basketball player I have ultimate respect. Jordan, and Magic Johnson also claim he was the best team player of all time.

But have you seen what the SOB has done with his daughter? Not a family man by any means and just not a nice guy. At least Michael took care of his offspring and cares about them.

So I loved his basketball prowess. But I despise him. I dont see how any man could just blow off his daughter like this guy. Hate to be judgemental, but thats why I like guys such as David Robinson and Tim Duncan. Their family comes first. And that may also be why they will never reach the level of guys like Bird.

I am not saying he is the best human being to walk the face of the earth. I know about his daughter Corrie, but as most people, am unaware of the full story involved.

Pat, again, you need to understand that the circumstances surrounding the situation. I do find it funny though that you fail to mention the 2 kids he has with his wife now were both ADOPTED...meaning he took in two kids that someone else did not want. Still a bad family man Pat?