Last I saw they were like 1/5. Take The Bluff was second at 4/1

Taake the Bluff wins it - Jazil 2nd and one of the coupled entries was third.

Impossible to really see anything for the fog. looks like Jara started him a bit late but he really didn't show the closing speed you would have expected.

He's never really been a closer, he just runs the same speed all race so passes tiring horses at the end. Looks like he isn't any faster that he'll be a factor at 8.5 to 9 furlongs. Time to start building a campaign around the 9.5 to 10 furlong stakes. Can't believe he went at less than even money here.

He ran decent for a suck up 2nd behind a horse who was able to dictate his own pace even after a clumsy start. Take the Bluff got pounded to 3/1, late money rules at the Big A. Kind of stinks for those people who thought they were getting 6/1 with like 4 mtp.

Good boy! (no one please bite my head off, this is my favorite horse in training :) )

While his Belmont win was going 12F, I dont necessarily think the longer he goes the better. Unless he gets significantly faster, hes going to have a problem winning any race over 9F against really top handicap horses. That Belmont field was brutal, worst ever assembled.

Hes kind of a tweener to me. Not fast enough to win at a mile, isnt ever going to capitalize on a field as weak as the Belmont Stakes again going long. May be a decent grade 3/ high priced allowance horse.

No biting of heads. He is a nice horse. I want him to win more races to earn some respect from others. He did win the Belmont. I like him too. Not my fave horse in training, but I do like him.

Id like to see them try the turf with this horse...

He is a fine horse. This was his first race since forever. I dont think it was that bad at all. I look for him to improve a bit.

I disagree totally. Virtually every two furlong segment of every race he's run has been between 24 and 25 seconds. The shorter the race is the tougher it is to compete running that speed. At 12 furlongs he'd do well against most of the top horses out there. 10 furlongs is going to be tough, 9 will be extremely difficult. At a mile he has no chance.

That is a closer.

I consider a closer a horse that sits back and turns it on at the end. He doesn't do that, he runs the same pace the whole way. I'd consider him a plodder which sounds insulting but he's at least a very good plodder.

He is the Giacomo of the East Coast. But I would bet on Giacomo before Jazil.

Good luck finding one of those on dirt.

Sun King

BTW, nice call on Take the Bluff

There are plenty of horses like that. Horses that have the speed to compete at shorter distances because they vary their speed early from race to race and come late with one big burst. Afleet Alex was like that, able to win stakes at 6 and 12 furlongs. Even Steppenwolfer has a burst of speed at the end even if it hasn't been helping him get in the winner's circle. Jazil just runs the same speed the whole way, that doesn't get it done at shorter distances. If you look at the fractions today Jara screwed up and rode the horse like he was a closer rather than a plodder. He kept him far off the pace when it went through in almost 24, 48, and 1:12. Jazil could have been close to that pace and still kept his 24- 25 clip through the finish line. Once he is way behind a 1:12 he doesn't have that closing kick to go win the race. Jara gave the horse no chance.

No horse that I have seen in my lifetime had a good of a closing kick as Victory Gallop. :)

Concern was a close second

You must not have seen Silky Sullivan.

Nope.

Lottsa Talc had an amazing closing kick.

When you get home from work, google him for videos...he was exciting to watch!

Oh boy. You should try to find some old film. He was unreal. I believe he was like 28-30 lengths behind the leader in the 58 SA Derby and he ended up winning by 3. I heard a story once that Silky trailed the leaders by something like 40 lengths in a 6.5 furlong race and won by a neck. Not sure if this is true, but it sounds good to me

Take the bluff set the pace early after a stumble and had a 4 length lead at the 1/8 pole. He won by a length and a half. You can't possibly think that another panel would not have factored into the finish.

Thanks. The track got frighteningly speed favoring, especially in routes, as the day wore on.

The routes on the inner are beginning to feel like routes at Keeneland pre-polytrack.

Just like every other day the last month, winter racing in NY, that's the way it is, be in front at the 1/2 mile pole or you can't win.

Here's the replay... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r636kJEnmGs

You can't possibly think that another panel would not have factored into the finish.

Honestly, no I dont think it would have mattered. I thought Jazil was going to win this race easily today but there was absolutely no way for me to bet a race like this. If he had been 6/5 I may have made a token bet.

THANK YOU!!

It has been poorly maintained this year but in year's past the inside bias has not been as prevelant as it has been at this meet.

I guess it's good if you win and bad if you lose. Hopefully it will even out and we can get more good bet backs off wide to nowhere trips.

That is the definition of a closer. Think about this:

You have a 6F sprint, with two main contenders; a deep closer and a frontrunner.
The frontrunner goes :22, :46, 1:12 and wins by a neck.
The closer is 7 lengths at the first call, 4 at the 2nd call, and loses by the neck.
What fractions did the front runner run? :22, :24, :26.
What fractions did the closer run? approximately :23 1/5, :23 2/5, :25 2/5.

Nearly all horses decelerate on the dirt, very few can and do accelerate at the end of the race. It's an optical illusion that the "closers" are actually running faster at the end than they did at the beginning... they're just decelerating at a lesser rate.

first rate btw..right on point...5 rattles to you..

I didn't know you were such a Sun King fan Sightseek ;)

Than how do you differentiate a "plodder"?

The part in bold is excellent and in my opinion, exactly right. The second part about him being good enough is, again, in my opinion, totally wrong. This is one of the worst horses ever to win a TC race and he's totally overrated. He's got no speed whatsoever and I'm going to go out on a limb and predict that he'll never win another grade one race. Actually, I'll take it a step further and say he'll never win another stakes race of any grade. By midyear, when he's retired, he'll still just have the same number of wins on his record that he's got now.

Am I the only one that saw the 2 horse stumble at the gate, get his legs under him, take the lead around the mile - 7/8th pole and hold it until he had nothing left while Jazil maintained a fairly constant pace the whole trip, closing in stretch down to the final 1/16th to within 2 lengths?

Not making excuses, but even McLaighlin said he needs more distance - from NYRA website:

>>> “We anticipated this a little bit. You have to be concerned with the tight turns and backing up to a mile and a sixteenth. He wants farther; we know that."<<<

This race goes 1 1/8 instead of 1 1/16th and you've got a different winner. Not that that's anything to celebrate.

But this logic that Jazil would have fared worse going longer is incomprehensable...

Not much of a tree you're venturing onto there Captain Obvious.

I also think Jazil is a better horse than you think. Grade 1? He's a dog...probably less likely than Strong Contender....but he has an outside shot. The reason your other bold prediction MAY come true is he may make too many starts where he doesn't belong. But I think if given a fair shot in reasonable starts he will surprise you.

I realized the first part was too easy so that's why I added the second. I don't think he has any shot to win though because I don't see them as the type to take steps backwards with him once they take him back to stakes competition. I think he'll either race in big races and lose and then be retired or he'll race in big races and lose and keep running. But I don't see them running him in cheap stakes races.

Jazil :P

Just kidding. A plodder is a closer who never wins!

:rolleyes: