You still owe me $700 from that night. Now that you are working a 2nd job I expect payment in full by post time of the Malibu.

A Maiden Claiming race, an hour earlier, featured FASTER fractions than that race....and the maiden claimer who set those fractions....he didn't falter, he drew away.

You are seriously nuts if you just look at naked raw fractions...not only do tracks change speed from day-to-day...but stuff like wind also plays a role in fractions.

I wasnt that drunk....:D

Okay, I will settle for a pound of coffee then.

last i checked, 45.58 and 70.59 is NOT faster than 45.50 and 69.38. Par to the half mile for alw runners at sar at 7f is 45.75, and the track pace was 2 lengths slow that day.

there's a reason the mcl drew off... the rest of the field was beyond terrible.

ok...but only if you agree to remove that picture of me as your avatar:o

The opening quarter was faster...and the 2nd faction was identical. Why are you posting six furlong times? Discreet Cat was already well in front after six furlongs.

The early fractions are considered first and 2nd quarter....not the six furlong call of a seven fulrong race.

The 2nd and 3rd place finishers behind the MCL winner both won their next start...the MCL winner was eased in his next start.

Nice try though.

I give up. Discreet Cat is the greatest thing since sliced bread because he beat some allowance bums with a moderately slow pace. Whatever.

Lets not forget the time between races for Discreet Cat. Geez, imagine how much better Skip Away and Cigar would have been if they were treated like a glass horse too.

I dont blame anybody for hyping up this horse though, we are in desperate need of a superstar in this sport. This decade has provided very few.

The 90's spoiled us with real horses that ran in races with real competition.

Enough of this silly talk about DC's tough trips. Trips don't matter when you face horses that can't possibly beat you under any circumstances.

I think now, Bernardini is probably underrated. Guess what? Great horses lose races sometimes. Very few retire undefeated. This horse most likely would have gone on to greatness if given the chance, including beating Discreet Cat at anything 1 1/8 miles and beyond. Unfortunately, as with all talented horses in this game, we'll never know how great he could have been.

Losing the BC Classic by about a length as a 3yo to a very good horse is pretty impressive if you think about it.

That's because you didn't listen to me on Premium Tap :p (but I can't talk for putting only Bernie on top w/ Invasor & PT :( )

I think the odds on Invasor speak that he was under-rated. The big boys were believed to be Lava Man & Bernardini, and DrugS explaination of the horses behind Invasor & Sun King explain why I think the race was under-rated, which may have affected what people thought of on Invasor. (that and the Suburban field wasn't all that hot either)

Maybe I need a better word for McLaughlin, Gorella & Prado...over-looked perhaps? Guess we'll wait to see on Eclipse day.

Gorella is not underrated. Neither is Fernando Jara. You put any number of jockeys on Invasor and Jazil and they will win the same amount of races. Hes a good rider but so are many others.

The most over talked about trip of all time is the one she had in last year's BC Mile where she was shut off and couldnt get past Artie Schiller.

True, it has validity but she lost and you cant say for sure she would have been the winner with a clean trip. Others in that race had less than ideal trips too.

She was all out to beat Karen's Caper with a perfect trip in the race before the BC. At Arlington this summer she was pretty amazing winning the Beverly D but if you watch Film Maker's trip that day. Brutal and not just in one spot.

Don't forget that Invasor was a bit higher in price than he might have otherwise been as a result of getting sick and missing the Jockey Club Gold Cup. Recall that he was coming into the race off a 3-month layoff which was *not* by design. He was coming off a recent illness, missed his prep race, and missed a few days of training. All of those factors raised questions about if he'd be able to deliver a peak performance and definitely contributed to his being the forgotten horse.

I know it. He ran a solid second for Christ sakes ( sorry) . When he made that monster of a move on the final turn to take the lead, I am willing to bet there wasn't a person in America watching that thought, Yup race over, done deal.
Was he the second coming of Secretariet, NO, is he a paper champion NO. The only major race he bypassed was the Belmont He ran in all the other major races for Three yr olds and destroyed what was thrown at him. Every great horse horse has a few losses next to his/her name. So he didn't win one race this year. A race he came in second to a much overlooked horse that has quite the resume himself.
The true sad part about this is we will never know how great Bernie could have been.

You are being silly.

The first six races of Discreet Cat's career are, without question, as good as the first six for any horse in racing history.

Ghostzapper was obviously the best horse in training after his 3-year-old season, but people always reacted the same way you are when someone would declare him so.

I fondly remember those lovely people who would say (after GZ's 3-year-old season)...."It's crazy to call Ghostzapper the best and most exciting horse in training. And based on what? A win in the Vosburg over a crap field? He's never even ran beyond 7 furlongs. He lost the King's Bishop. Blah Blah...you are nuts."

Ghostzapper didn't have to spend two winters in Dubai either.

While I don't agree that Bernardini was underrated....his repute was earned with one cup-cake trip after another.

I do however agree with you that he ran very well in the Breeders Cup Classic, far better than people seem to want to give him credit for running. It was also his first time facing real in-race adversity against top company...if anything, I was impressed with I saw from him.

He came up empty in the last 1/8th---but was understandably moved too soon, while finding himself further than he typically is, behind that very solid early pace.

I also agree that Bernardini could have developed further. In fact, a very rational case could be made that Bernardini's best race might have been his BC Classic loss. I also believe Invasor's best race was his Classic win...even though his winning performance in the Whitney is MASSIVELY underrated.

If Discreet Cat ran as much and against the fields Skip Away and Holy Bull regulary ran against, I doubt very much he'd be undefeated.
They are treating him like a glass statue. Its what is ruining horse racing. The all mighty breeding dollar. The races themselves are secondary matters.

So glad I got to see a horse like Skip Away.

Oh...and I agree with everything you said.

However, I believe it's best to hold the kid gloves treatment DC has recieved, against the connections, and not the horse....

Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't he the 2nd choice in the biggest race in the country?

I never said he was underrated before the Classic. I'm saying he is now, as he is being brushed away after a pretty damn good race. Of course, we'll never really know...

I think it speaks volumes that they retired bernardini as a three year old, and even more so they knew they would going into the breeders cup.

it's really not very often that you see them retire a healthy 3yo, especially one that is a supposed superstar.

say what you will about godolphin and darley, but they at least usually keep their top horses running through their four and sometimes five year old seasons.

what this says to me is that they knew he wasnt as good as the hype would suggest, and therefore he will be worth alot more at stud if his reputation does not become tarnished.

as i was telling salami the other day, i have to think way back to come up with a horse like bernardini. one that is a very very good horse, but is also very much overhyped.

3rd choice at 7-1 which is insane odds on the only horse besides Tom Fool to win the Pimlico Special, Suburban, and Whitney in the same year.

Better Talk Now is underrated I guess...a former BC winner who again went off at 20-1 plus didn't he?? He darn near pulled another huge upset in the BC turf. Won a couple nice races this year and did also run some pretty pedestrian ones in the Arlington Million and UN. Pretty consistent old guy nonetheless.

I agree about Better Talk Now. This horse has been a thorn in my side forever betting wise. The few times I have played him have been when he throws a dud. A couple different times I needed somebody else to win for scores, and BTN beats me.

What a resume this horse has put together over the years. Very underrated when you consider all the ink English Channel and Cacique seem to get.