I didn't see their debuts... what happened to her where she only went on to run once more?

At risk of opening myself up for some more of your lame insults...which I assume I deserved because I disagreed with you....

Are you picking Crimison Saint because of her steller produce record...or do you really believe she be justified as an all-time fastest filly based upon what she did on the race track?

I've seen a lot of film of a lot of great fillies---but never seen any of her races. All I know, about her as a race horse is that she was 7-for-11 and made 91K with one graded stake win.

A horse like Spectacular Bid was 24-for-24 lifetime, between the distances of 7 furlong to 1 1/4 miles, setting MANY track records, and overcoming tremendous adversity in some of those wins (Florida Derby etc.) Yet, he was a rather weak stallion. Would you hold the fact that he was so bad in the breeding shed against him as a race horse?

Was it only once more? I remember she won easily in her first two starts, then something went wrong... Maybe im thinking of the wrong horse, but I seem to remember her coming back at some point and running pretty poorly after that.

Wait, is she a Mr. Prospector mare??? If its the same mare, I know her daughter Sweep Dreams REAL well.... sweet sweet mare thats smart as hell.

No...I am fairly certain she only made two starts. Considering her trainer, Mark Hennig, that's a lot of wins.

Thats her. recently deceased Dragon owned her. She was sensational in her brief career, as much raw talent as i ever saw from a filly. Thats one I'd really to have loved to have seen raced more. The fast ones always get hurt, the slow ones never run fast enough to do any damage.

Sweep Dreams might be her foal. Probably would have been bred by December Hill Farm...owned by the late Alan Dragone.

Ruffian and Crimson Saint are from the same family with a nexus of Cherokee Rose.

at 6f! i think she was as good as xtra heat

a speed filly going a distance, i think none was better than Winning Colors!

Come to think of it, maybe its best she never ran again after those two wins!!!

Right...she was 2 for 2.

Beautiful Pleasure before the unfortunate stuff looked like a great

You are right. Capote Belle was bet to 6/5 against her in that debut---do you remember what Danseuse went off at?

Hes off his meds again dude, for real. Just don't bother.

I think she was a good price. Like 8-1 or something like that because Hennig has such a poor rep with 1sters.

First off, the reaction in the prior thread had nothing to do with you disagreeing with me. I welcome it... hell I set up topics with blackie all the time... you learn more from your weaknesses than you do your strengths.

But in response to Crimson Saint, i've heard two trainers, my father (who's opinion and knowledge of the sport I respect.. he's been breeding for 30 years), and a well-known pedigree analyst at Three Chimney's Farm all mention Crimson Saint as a mare that was one of the fastest ever, but very unsound.

So, I researched her and everything backs that up. If you look her up, its consistently (I cringe to use this word again) said she was one of the fastest ever. I'll have to take their word for it... and her blood has obviously given us some of the fastest blood available to breeders today.

The amazing thing was she paid, I think, 5-2. There is a chance she was as high as 4-1 but she was bet like IRON into Capote Belle.

Santos rode her and Drew ( who had his book then ) told me she was VERY good but we were all rightfully afraid of Capote Belle. They had comparable trips, though for some reason I think Danseuse's was tougher, and she drowned her ( like 2 1/2 lengths pretty easily ).

For a 2 YO, no filly was better than Landaluce in 1982.

She won her debut at Hollywood by 8 lengths in 1:08 1/5.

Seven days later she won the Hollywood Lassie by 21 lengths in 1:08 flat.

She won her next three starts by a combined 20 lengths or so.

She died after her fifth start.

Anyone remember a filly McGaughey trained sometime in the early 90's named Grand Gala? I think McGaughey trained her. If memory serves me right, she raced down at Gulfstream.

You sure its not a recent Grand Gala? Or do you have the name confused? Grand Gala is a 2001 homebred for the Phipps by Dixieland Band out of Fantastic Find... and she was a winner once in 4 starts from what I can see.

Speaking of Shug trained fillies... I always heard Matlatcha Pass was one of the fastest horses the Phipps ever had... "freakishly fast" is what I was told. But she was also one of their most unsound horses. She only raced 3 times... in a sad point to that unsoundness, Matlacha Pass is/was the dam of the ill-fated Pine Island.

She was a bullet.

I get her debut, however, confused ( I think ) with Our Country Hideaway, who I believe won by the length of the stretch in 1:22 and piece in her first start.

I'm reasonably sure I was at Belmont for both of their debuts.

Matlacha was a Seeking The Gold right?

Yes.

I wasn't overly impressed with her.

Yes, a full sister to Pleasant Home and Country Hideaway.

Seeking the Gold is not known for breeding sound horses

I'd figured you'd jump all over Flitabout. She seems to get the most flack for it. Which, I feel has everything to do with Reviewer and Ruffian.

A haunting FYI-- Both Ruffian's dam, Shenanigans, and her sire, Reviewer, were put down after thrashing about and injuring themselves, much like she did after the attempt was made to save her life.

"Fastest" is pretty subjective but any list MUST include Kincsem...she twice won races at 6f or shorter by "distance" and another time by 10 lengths! Many of her 54 wins without a loss were at long distances but she won her share of sprints as well...how fast was she? Impossible to tell but she would have to be on the list!

didn't all 3 pass within a short time of each other...a truly sad ending for the 3.

Yes, it was pretty sequential if I remember the story right.

it's hard to view Ruffian's last race with a dry eye...the movie should be a real tear jerker...

I'm positive that it was back around 1991. I remember reading about her in that Racing Times publication. Maybe I have the name wrong or maybe they changed her name but that has stuck in my head for all this time.

Here's that maiden race...

Danseuse -vs- Capote Belle

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cYWh3cSpUY

You rock dude!

Can I be your groupie?

Oh wow, Above the Line was in that maiden race. I have a picture of me as a little girl at Overbrook with my brother and her. I dont remember much about her but I still have that picture.