the oaks was bad ..the whole field went on to do well in a bad year..imo..

Noones gonna argue that this 3YO filly crop was spectacular. Figure wise they were slow.
Not many from the crop will do much else. Pine is sadly gone, Bush looks likes shes over the top and will be hard pressed to return to form, Balance got banged up pretty good.
Wait A while should romp all next year, I think teammate may turnout to be a good 4Yo, and Wonder Lady got banged up in the Alabama and is ok now and training for a 4Yo campaign. Her race in the CCA was after she was discovered to have had a problem(which I and a guy from IEAH posted about on this board before the race) fixed. She ought to do very well as a 4YO. Shes pointing at the restricted 4YO mare races at Santa Anita this winter. Round Pond will clearly be the division leader in the older mare category as most of her competitors are going to the shed.

That doesn't make it a good race. The only horses that could compete in this year's races restricted to 3YOs are this year's 3YOs ( I know....I'm making a point ). Balance ran a couple OK races in California, and then didn't run a step in either the Ashland or KY Oaks, so I will withhold judgement on the 3YO fillies from CA. Wild Spin sure had a nice season.

It was a horrendous group of 3YO fillies this year, and only Pine Island seemed to be of genuinely quality, and she was a very late developer. Frankly she was still learning a lot when second in both the Mother Goose and CCA Oaks ( where she didn't get a particularly clever ride either ). The 3YO filly with the second best performances this year? To me it's clear....Teammate. What do you think of her?

I think Wonder lady's CCA and teammate's Gulf race were the 3rd best and 4th best performances.
Pine's pair in the Alabama and Gazelle were the two best to me.
Wonder's CCA was very good. There was a strong outside bias that day(Spite the Devil actually won a race, thats how strong it was) and Pine was forced wide but that was the place to be and she had strong fractions to run into. Wonder took hot heat between horses the whole backside and was on the dead rail and still dug in in a race that got a very good number Beyer and sheet wise.
See my other post, I think teammate will have a much better 4Yo year, and you can toss WLA's Alabama as she emerged banged up.
But neither will beat Round Pond, she should own this division next year. The others will play duck, duck, goose.

I wasn't a big fan of Teammate at any point so maybe i'm speaking with a built in bias, but I have to give #2 to Bushfire. She did win some big races at multiple distances and ran a bang up 3rd in the Oaks (all the other speed horses were nowhere to be found at the wire.) #3 goes to Lemons Forever, and if she comes back at 4 with some better early speed she'll be dangerous and it's not impossible considering most LDK's are late developers.

You have a bias because of your relationship with Wonder Lady Anne, and she did run well that day, but it was the slop and it was a trainer who doesn't exactly get consistent campaigns from horses. In the context of the race she did run well, how much of an outside bias there was that day is debateable, but I will try to go back and watch those races. The problem is the effort is incongruous with her other efforts this year so it feels like more of an aberation than a defining race.

I believe Teamate's effort at Gulfstream was clearly better, as was her second in the Alabama ( she dueled in a very solid pace and still just lost while beating the rest of the field by a substantial margin ) and frankly one couold easily argue her Gazelle was better.

I won't argue with that. I was no big fan of Bushfire's, as her races were just too slow, but she certainly ran the best race in the KY Oaks.

Let's face it....this was a poor group.

Next year's older fillies and mares is hardly inspiring. Gee, I wonder what trainer will end up dominating the division.

She hated the slop in her race at Gulf.
If I'm biased its because I know what was wrong with her before the CCA and what was fixed.(I posted about it before the fact, not after as did someone else). She flat outran Pine, Pine was with bias and had afast pace to run at. She was just better than Pine that day, as you said Pine was still learning and I think she was gonna be a great.
As far as knocking Rick with consistent campaigns, I thought his job with St Liam last year was one of the best jobs in recent memory. He won grade ones from Feb- to BCC and the horse never had a break. A true year long campaign.
Only recently has he gotten the type of top horseflesh to judge him on. His career was claimers for the most part until recently.

Aren't most of Todds going to the shed BTW?
I believe Spun and OOnagh are, and I know Fleet is. What else does he have?

No question they were, and the scary thing is unless something happens, fast, next year's 3YO's will be even worse.

I'm going to make a longshot guess on the trainer as... the guy whose barn shingle is in my photo. SHOCKER (then again he could enter next year's BC distaff with the favorite, 3rd choice, and 5th choice and end up with a dnf and two other also rans)

Because anyone who respects their horseflesh won't send him good stock.
Anyone whose crazy enough to consider running a horse for the 3rd time in a week off two monster efforts doesn't respect their stock.

I'll give you St. Liam, however.

really?
So four roses, stonerside, Ed Evans, William Warren, Ahmed Zayat have no respect for their horseflesh?
Hes 9th in earnings this year, and hes done it with far fewer starters than in previous years.
As far as Indian War Dance goes, I can assure you that the owners wanetd to do that. They are still stuck on him, and stuck good. They claimed him for a bundle at the end of 2003, he earned very little in 2004, didn't race at all in 2005. Toss in the operation cost, and day rate and vet bills and shoes for 3 years, and you got a bad claim, despite the three wins. They wanna win as mush as they can while hes sharp and hopefully lose him.

wla won ..cant argue that is fact..she was not the best horse that day..javy clearly blew the ride on a much the best horse..pine island..

Well hooves I know what the track bias was, all outside closers, I know Pine was wide with the bias, and I know the fractions of 47 flat on a slow track set it up for her run. She wasn't best, and she couldn't get there.
Her future races were better, but she wasn't that good yet, she got beat by Bush the same way with no excuses in her prior.
You can't use future races to argue that a race in the past was better than it was.
You don't remember the bias that day huh?

what was the date on that....ill re watch the race..

I have no idea who's staying but I'm sure he'll pick up 13 or 14 more. Clones?

Hooves watch all the races that day. It was on July 22nd.
I made a little money on the race but blew my pik-4's and pik-3's when Spite The ****ing Devil won his only race of the year, flying widest of all.
One or two speed wins that day, but those were well out in the center of the track.
Fractions were slow all day, WLA battled in between Sugar Shake and Teammate and put one away and then the other. Fractions were fast and on the turn I was cursing out Prado and thought she was dead. Noone was more shocked than I was that she held on. Against the bias and fast fraction duel, with Pine going wide with the bias and having that pace to run at, Pine woulda won if she was better that day.
Pine stepped up in the bama, and moreso in the Gazelle.

LOL!!!
Todd doesn't seem to have as much for next year as he did going into this past year.
I think all three of those fillies are gone. In older horse division he has only Lawyer Ron.
I think Wait A While comes back, and has soem nice two year olds in both divisons, but nothing dominating.
Frankel seemed just as invincible a few years back and noone keeps it going on the same level forever.

i just watched it again my conclusions we right on javy went 8 wide and still closed 12 lenths ..pine was best by a few with a better ride..how can you say anything to the back up the fact he got beat by a head ..im puzzled to think an exp like yourself would say that... if not for the "home team" cheerleading..

Pletcher should also have Pool Land back who is dangerous when things go her way.

I don't trust the guy as far as I can throw him.

What was their claim price on IWD? About 75K right?

This thread made me think of my favorite '05 3YO filly, R Lady Joy, who has absolutely slipped into complete mediocrity this year after a couple of big efforts last year.

Hooves,
just watched all 9 races on Brisbet.com replays on July 22nd.

race 1- Scald off the oace and Durkin notes that Coa was in the 4 path with her.

race 2- Prevention seemingly beaten, rallies widest of all of pace of 1:13 to win. 7f goes in 1:26:4

race 3- non 1 other than colts, 23:4, 47 flat, Elements from WAY BAck, wide run down the stretch.

race 4- 1-2 Towering Escape wires a 4 horse field in 23:2, 47:4, 1:13:1, etc. Shes removed at least two paths from the rail while doing so although she won by about 15 lengths and it didn't matter where she came from.

race 5- Fire Hero comes from WAY back on the rail in the last part of the race to win.

race 6 24 flat, 48:1, 1:13:3 1:39:2 4-5 Paulinus stalks very wide in 3rd and draws away as place horse Wooden comes "down the crown of the track" to get the place.

Race 7- Spite The Devil comes wide as you can get, to win. 23:2 , 46:4, 1:11:2, 1:37:1, 1:43:2 Naughty new Yorker, and Organizer both finish behind him in a very solid field of older NY breds.

race 8- WLA engaes teammate from the two path with Sugar Shake outside of her.23:4 1/4. WLA puts away teammate and is now inside of Sugar Shake in 47 flat, conitinues to duel on the rail 1:11:2, 1:37:2
Pine Island has no traffic, goes 5 wide with the bias on the turn and is whipped and bashed by Javy many many times. race goes in 2:04:3 last quarter in 27:1 and Pine can't get by. Fractions are as fast as OLDER ny bred stakes horses go in a a mile and a 1/6th half an hour earlier.

race 9- Stay Inside wires the field 23 flat, 47:2 1:12 while removed from the rail down the backside.

Two and half wire jobs, two of those were removed from the rail.
One rail winner all day and that one was from way off the pace.
Outside paths definitely the most successful place to be, fastest fractions of the say pace wise are in the CCA, which at a mile and a quarter sets up a late outside run.
Pine Isalnd definitely turned out to be a beter filly than WLA, no doubt. I think she was gonna be a great, especially next year. But she wasn't best this day, the "ground she lost" was actually advantageous as she swung out into the turn on the best part of the track and was chasing a horse who had previously detested the slop and who had been softened up in a between horse than over to the rail extended pace duel.
WOuldn't matter what association I had with her, facts are facts and Pine had a perfect set up and ran with the bias and couldnt get up in a 27:1 quarter. She wasn't best.

Trust me they are stuck good on him.
3 years training- 120 grand(including costs of everything) hes earned back about 93 grand( you can take 18,600 of that off for trainer jock 10% apiece fee). So they are stuck 38 grand on costs plus the claim price. Some miracle job huh? Ask those owners what they think of the "miracle job" with this horse. They aren't thrilled, I can assure you.

Guess you dont like Sciacca either?

You have too much time on your hands!!!

Dude read my piece. Then watch ALL the other races. last 1/4 in 27:1 and she couldnt get up. I'll put my bias and race watching analysis up against anyone's alive.
Wide WITH the bias behind hottest pace duel all day, couldn't get up, no tyraffic trouble.
She was a better horse than WLA, no doubt, with what she did afterwards, But she wasnt better that day, no excuses, perfect race set up.

LOL!!
I've only made 16 inquiries today. Most unsuccessful.
Oh the Miceli horse is owned by a guy whose first winner was....... you guessed it, that horse. He'd sell his wife and kids before he'd sell him.
Why the **** did he have to rerally, why couldn't he have faded to third?

has no traffic?what do you call the horse at the 1/8 pole that moves her out...not to mention the rest of the race before that..she had to lay back just to get position clear after the rest started to die..it was agood effort by wla and a smart ride..but in no way was she best..your bias info is inconclusive...

He DOES like him.....that way he doesn't have to throw him.

Keep trying!!!!

Good thing for his back. What about a sumo wrestling match between Sciacca and Dutrow? No test barn of course.

Really?
Then why all the successful wide and off the pace runs that day?
And did you watch the other races? Obviously not, cause if you did you would conclude the same thing.
Revisionist history don't work with horses Hooves. Pine Island turned out to be better than Bushfire also, but she wasnt better in the Goose. Same thing happened, had a pace to close on and good trip and couldnt get up.
Shug himself said she finally put it together in the Bama. YOu shoulda seen him screaming down the stretch run, I watched the race next to him and he was like shaking and screaming. He loved that filly, and said ater the race in the racing office that he knew she had that kind of talent but that she finally put it together. He offered no excuses for prior losses.
She was gonna be a great, and no 3Yo filly from that crop was ever gonna touch her again, that i know with total certainty. She was the best of that crop by miles. We lost a great one on BC day, and its sad.

The guy at Calder mother****ed me and said why do you parasites have to call so soon, can't I enjoy it for a few days at least.

I'd have to take Sciacca. Hes got the size and enthusiam.
I still like Eddie barker in a straight boxing match.

At the time it looked like a good claim, he was running very well until infirmities hit. Your estimation is probably pretty close to correct!

I think WLA was best that day.She worked very hard in the early and middle parts of that race.She got no breaks.Put them away,and opened up like the best horse does.Pine had to lose some ground,and made a good run,but the TOUGHER work was done by WLA that day.Matter of fact,I am surprised they want to bring her out here.Should just wait n' run at Belmont.Obviously likes what I would call a "good" track.Aren't there some races they would like to win at Belmont next Summer/Autumn?

I'm quite sure its correct. They are stuck their nuts.
Ricky didn't have the greatest belmont meet either, and how come he only gets **** when he wins, like with a total failed claim like the one we are talking about?
Its ok if he goes cold and loses, but not when he gets some horse they are stuck their nuts on to win a few claiming races.
I honestly don't get it.

Scuds she emerged banged up out of the Bama. But her CCA was with the issue addressed.
Shes fresh because shes been off since August, went back into training in October.
Its a restricted race series, for four year olds only and it makes sense to go after it because who else is gonna be there? I doubt Jerkens would ship Teammate, and who else is left exactly that will be a 4 year old filly?
If she doesnt like the track she can always be shipped to Palm Meadows and try another route.

He gets **** because (a) his claims (to/from) often have significant form reversals, ( b ) runs horses back 4 days later off a huge effort, stepping up in price/class, and STILL wins by 5, and the biggie: (c) drug suspensions.