Do you really think other entities won’t work around this?

Do you really think that NYRA should change their Saratoga meeting, the very best and leading meeting in the country, to accomodate an arbitrary decision which is an on-site money grab by Churchill Downs?

The thing for me is - I’m pretty sure that states and/or the federal government are going to mandate that horse racing stop at some point. So I don’t think planning to race without fans is a viable option for Churchill. I guess we’ll see. I don’t think Santa Anita or NYRA are going to be running in two weeks.

If it increases the chances of having a stacked field for the Travers, why not? This is a business. Saratoga can try to compete with the Derby, which is fine, or they can modify their usual schedule to accommodate the extenuating circumstances created by the coronavirus. I don’t care what they decide to do but it’s not a bad idea to move the Travers.

To me that date seems like the only option for them.. Enough time for this to clear out and folks schedule Hotel, Airfare etc. It is Before College Football dominates Saturdays and it gives horses enough time before Breeders Cup.. And they have every right to a money grab... They need to do what is right for their shareholders.. It sucks but you have to play the ball where it lies.

Interesting development. In a perfect world, CD would have contacted NYRA and worked together to manufacture an ideal scenario. Instead, they acted like the Derby is the ONLY race that matters.

This is precisely my point. The NYRA Press Release sounds as if the organization was on its heels : "we will get back to you when we have an idea what to do" as opposed to having a coordinated response across the racing juristictions.

I am happy to hear the "work together" mantra, but the first player basically told you that your voice did not matter - and that is the problem. Play nice if you want in working with the Stronach organization.

While I realize this meet doesn't start for another 4 months, what does them being the "leading meet" have to do with anything? Keeneland just scrapped their entire meet, the NBA/NHL/MLB/NCAA have come to a screeching halt, but NYRA conforming to some type of adjustment is too much to ask?

I've been to the last 20 derby's and have tickets to this year's as well, am I pissed, sure, but there's a bigger picture happening in life right now. People need to be prepared to get out of their comfort zones being we're in uncharted territories not only as race fans but as human beings right now.

-bt-

Churchill was trying to figure things out in a short window. You think it’s as simple as Churchill calling NYRA and they can work things out in time for Churchill to give adequate notice to everyone? That seems extremely unlikely. And which other tracks should Churchill call to coordinate with.

I agree, in an ideal world, there would be some coordination or at least communication. But it just seems unrealistic/impractical here.

All valid points, but per your example, why is the Derby not outright being cancelled? Seriously, it is just one race in the 3YO season when put in perspective. The reason is that the Stronach Group wants that revenue in any way possible. If it wasn't the 3YOs could race in front of an empty grandstand and we all watch and bet from home.

The secondary question is why does the 3YO stakes path need to change to accomodate this particular two minute race? Stronach should have worked on that before announcing this new date. It would have been a better way to bring the industry together. We can talk about the spirit of cooperation, but did Stronach speak with the various leading organizations (NYRA, Del Mar) to see how they could work together?

I’ll be honest I’m looking at it this way. If the derby is run in September as stated I will be a very happy man. It will mean this crisis is over and the real things that matter in life will be back.

It's the friggin TRAVERS the mid-summer Derby arguably the second most important 3-year-old race in the country. It's not the Indiana Derby. If the second most important race in the country doesn't matter than I give up.

It is what it is...FU everyone we are the Derby you do what you want. Do you think the Masters would schedule over the Ryder Cup?

I think you’re grossly missing the big picture here. It was hardly an arbitrary decision.

I’m not really sure what else to say at this point. Churchill is actually doing the right thing.

Politely, I say hogwash. If Churchill took another two weeks to speak with every major feeder racing organization between now and then, schedules could have been synchronized.

Tracks to call seems simple, those with major Summer Stakes and those with classic lead-ins : NYRA (Travers), Monmouth (Haskell), Delmar (Pacific Classic), Santa Anita, Oaklawn, and Fair Grounds. They own Gulfstream so that should be easy.

Fill in the blank : Churchill is doing the right thing for ____. NBC? The Stronach Group? Cancel the Derby this year and allow the other Summer 3YO stakes to be the playground showdown. I guess we just disagree.

So they only need to coordinate with 7-8 tracks? Come on.

The Stronach Group has nothing to do with Churchill

You’re right. They’re not consulting others because it’s the Derby. Like it or not, reality is that casual fans pay more attention to the Derby than the Travers. It’s stupid to have them right on top of each other. Hopefully the Travers will reschedule.

Good. I thought I missed something.

Again, The Stronach Group has nothing to do with Churchill. Your whole premise is faulty off the bat.

Same. Stronach owns Pimlico, that's the only connection i've drawn from this.

-bt-

Which major 3YO preps that truly have Derby impact did I miss? Expand the list as needed.

Sunland is done. Turf Paradise is done. Sam Houston does not supply a contender. Will Rogers is not in the picture. Has Chicago put forward a serious Derby player?

Mea culpa. My error in saying Stronach. So, talk about this in terms of Churchill Downs - again, my fault.

NYRA can either hope that they will still attract the bulk of the top 3 year olds (maybe they will) and chance that they will get the lesser lights or they can be flexible for one year. Even if they move it up, it will still be a very prestigious prize even as a prep for the Derby.

I do think they should make the race 1 1/8 as I don’t think any trainer would want to prep their foot for a 1 1/4 race with another 1 1/4 race. Plus, if the Preakness and Belmont are moved, that’s an awful lot of races at classic distances before the BC. That seems like too much.

They are doing right by their shareholders. I can’t fault them for that. I also think they are thinking there is going to be a national shut down of some sort soon. This is purely my opinion.

I think we’ve been fortunate to have racing the last few days but I’m not sure how much longer we will have it. Again, pure speculation on my part but if that’s the case the decision makes even more sense.

I don’t think for one second this decision was made on a whim. Just like the decision to cancel Keeneland wasn’t an easy decision. I think people are playing the cards they have been dealt the best way they can.

Jon White, on with Steve, suggested moving the SA Derby to June and then taking the Del Mar Derby off the grass and using that as a prep for the Derby in August....but then what do you do with the California horses who are ready to run? I guess they’d have to ship....but then that would defeat the purpose of moving the SA Derby.

Reading the material available this evening, the decision was made related to the local State Fair's ending and the start of the Notre Dame football season. Not once did I see a word from Churchill that the decision making was about the racing season.

So, Santa Anita and the California circuit should change at least two and potentially more races to account for Churchill Downs' balance sheet to share holders? Have all HORSE RACING fans lost their minds? How about this crazy idea? How about Churchill Downs eats it this year, take the hit on their share price, and worries about building anticipation for Kentucky Derby 2021?

You win. I’m not sure what your end game here is. The Derby is postponed. Life will go on...hopefully.

Seems in the wild-eyed ranting, you've forgotten that the Derby is more than Churchill Downs Inc. and their shareholders.

There's a city and its' businesses that reap $400,000,000 from the event. Or should everyone in The Ville should just eat it this year too?

In response, seems in the pollyanna devotion to a single 120 second race, we are willing to sacrifice the plans and communities around the country that themselves depend on their own racing seasons.

Despite the carefully guarded secret of the Derby's community value (estimated at less than $100M as of 2014 by Forbes), it would be wonderful if the revenue could be saved for the community; it would be wonderful if every restaurant, bar, and gathering place here in New York from Long Island to Albany to Buffalo was not about to undergo their own financial crisis. But they are and that is the new reality.

My issue, Steve, is that this Derby decision, made to fit between a State Fair and Notre Dame Football on a convenient weekend for the area, never once considered their impact on the rest of the horse racing community.

Who at Churchill Downs checked with NYRA about their summer plans? If they did consult with NYRA, their press release would not look as it did today.
____

https://www.courier-journal.com/stor...orth/17352433/

This is just a guess, my opinion, but the people at NYRA aren’t as upset about this as Scott is.

Weird stuff

All this talk about having horses ready to run with nowhere to go is one of the main problems in racing. You fit the race schedule to the horse, not the other way around.

The musical chairs isn't really necessary; what is necessary is perhaps some purse adjustments and some revivals. Hollywood Park used to run the Laz Barrera and the Silver Screen ahead of the Swaps. Currently all 3 still exist in CA.

The last 6 winners of the Los Al Derby were: champion Shared Belief, the ill-fated Gimme Da Lute, HOY Accelerate, champion West Coast, Once On Whiskey, and champion Game Winner. Not a bad run for a relatively minor race. Ramp it up a bit purse wise and tie the prep races together and it may return to its full glory from the Hollywood Park days for a 2020 one-off.

Del Mar has been building up the Shared Belief (El Cajon) in recent years (Accelerate, Battle of Midway, and Improbable have been recent winners) and can certainly add something to the purpose and stretch it out to 9f or more. No need to mess with the Del Mar Derby. If they get desperate they can always move the Hollywood Derby to the summer and switch it back to the main track--in fact, Affirmed won both the Santa Anita Derby and the Hollywood Derby before he started his TC run.

At any rate, over its history the Triple Crown races have been fairly fluid with respect to their relative positions. The Preakness has been run anywhere from 1-3 weeks after the Derby and the anywhere from 3-4 weeks before the Belmont. During 1945 and other war years, when many tracks were closed and many circuits were consolidated (Saratoga meets ran at Belmont, Arlington ran at Washington Park), the TC was all over the place. In 1945, each race was run one week apart with the Derby starting on June 9. When Gallant Fox won the Triple Crown, the Preakness was run before the Kentucky Derby.

If "tradition" is the motivation for this condemnation of CDI's move, then that's some pretty shaky ground. The people in control of the Preakness and the Belmont Stakes needn't really bother worrying about when the 2020 Kentucky Derby is going to be held. They should just worry about the local factors that might dictate what they can and can't do with their schedules. Common sense says that if they are allowed to run on their scheduled dates, then leave them as is. If Santa Anita is still open in early April, then the SA Derby is going to be run (if for no other reason than the greedy folks at TSG count on SA Derby Day as one of it's main money-making days along with the recent Big Cap Day).

Meanwhile, if I were a TSG lackey and really wanted to stick a fork in Pimlico, I would be looking at this as a golden opportunity to push the Preakness over to Laurel...and then just leave it there.

:tro:

Rollo, good stuff! I like your ideas about making adjustments to the stakes schedule. CDI is adding some stakes to the schedule, presumably to fill the May/June gap. I wonder if Belmont can do something also - though I guess they’d have to arrange it with CDI regarding points. This would give trainers options besides CA and CD

With the loss of sports and sports betting, this seems like a good opportunity for this sport to shine and be something good for this country. I am thankful that they are still racing and I can put something on that isn't about a deadly disease. If they ran the Derby without any fans I wouldn't mind at all. Just a track feed would be even better.

I give the sport a big :tro::tro::tro: for continuing on. Shouldn't the pools and general interest be growing from the addicts who have to bet on something?


Never forget...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0QqdYJeCts

:tro:

You probably should have stopped posting here.

No matter what anyone thinks about Churchill Downs Inc., they must do what is right by its shareholders and work with its partner NBC for the best possible financial outcome. This date makes the most sense as it is far enough down he road and gives horses time to participate and also participate in the Breeders Cup. I’ll go one further that it may even get more eyeballs on Breeders Cup from non regulars as the Derby Winner will still be fresh in many peoples minds. Your suggestion that Churchill Downs and Louisville should just eat nearly a half Billion dollar loss to accommodate NYRA’s schedule really seems to be one made more on emotion and not based upon sound analysis of the situation here. There is no business where you eat a huge loss to accommodate your competitors schedule.

Oaklawn considering AR Derby date change to fill void on calendar

Mary Rampellini
Mar 17, 2020

The announcement Tuesday that the Kentucky Derby will be moved to Sept. 5 due to the coronavirus pandemic could lead to a new date for the Grade 1, $1 million Arkansas Derby, according to Oaklawn Park president Lou Cella. The Arkansas Derby is currently scheduled for April 11.

Cella said Tuesday that Oaklawn has been in discussions with a number of factions to determine the best date for the 1 1/8-mile race that has been won by such horses as American Pharoah, Smarty Jones, and Sunny's Halo.

“It’s a moving target,” Cella said. “We are in discussions internally, as well as with other tracks, on, ‘What do we believe will be the future of racing in the springtime for this year?’ We don’t know and right now we have to react.

“As of today we are planning on our complete meet, ending on May 2, and as we have scheduled, running the Arkansas Derby on April 11. Now, with the fact that Keeneland has shut down its meet and Churchill has [postponed] the Derby, we have to review the timing and scheduling of [our stakes] and see what makes the most sense for our racing connections, and that’s what we’re reviewing right now. We’ll probably have some changes in the near future.”

Cella said with the current landscape of preps all geared to the first Saturday in May, it might make sense to run the Arkansas Derby later in the meet at Oaklawn.

“Rather than April, maybe we push it back to a different date that might be best for the horsemen,” he said. “We’re talking to the horsemen right now to see what is best. For the horseman with a promising 3-year-old, is it best for him to race on April 11 or race on May 2?

“We’re not going to cancel anything. It just might be a rescheduling. What is best for the horse?”

Cella said decisions would be made in the near future, so horsemen would have time to adjust training schedules.

Other notable stakes for 3-year-olds left on the Oaklawn calendar include the $300,000 Oaklawn Invitational on May 2, which last year produced starters for the Preakness, and the Grade 3, $600,000 Fantasy on April 10, which has been a prep for the Kentucky Oaks. This year, the Oaks will be held on Sept. 4, according to an announcement Tuesday.

So I hear they are keeping all future wagers, that's total BS.