I'll be first to admit I was a Maximum Security fan and still am as its not the horses fault. I knew the history of Servis but failed to think that this would go on at the level of the Kentucky Derby and other great races the horse ran in. I was proven wrong and am happy to see the trash being dealt with. As a horse player these yahoos have cost me and I'm sure plenty others a lot of money having to include them in multi race wagers only because of the rumors. Congrats to the FBI on a job here well done and hopefully moves the sport in the right direction.

http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/sho...7&postcount=66

This guy made a beautiful perfect post about this kind of thing ;)

There's Cheating Going On In Horse Racing?
 

The absolute worst thing that could happen to the sport right now!
Dead horse being burying illegally! So no one knows?
Cut them loose, make a sever example of all the trainers, owners, Vets, and anybody they(The F.B.I.)can prove what they did and are accusing!
Baseball, Football, Golf, all major sports, and most minor sports would mediately get rid of these criminal elements.
What hell is going on here?

Cut them loose ? I have news for you. If you get indicted by the Feds, you’re going to federal prison. Ask Vick, or Martha Stewart, or these parents who paid to get their kids into college. This is serious business and they’ve been watching for a long time.

By cut them loose I assume he means cut them loose from the game.

Being cut loose from the game is the least of their problems is what I’m saying.

I think there's a lot of people who knew he was a phony, myself and yourself included. Just look at the pre-Derby Maximum Security threads.

Call me a skeptic but I really doubt the Wests, et al didn't know what was going on.

What the industry needs to do is have statistical analysts look at each performance and the likelihood of result. Once a trainer/owner/jockey has too many questionable results (good OR bad), the scrutiny starts. Automatic security detail on the barn, etc. It's not hard to identify these guys through the past performances. Use the information available and act on it.

The Jockey Club and their investigative unit have been working on that utilizing Thoro-Graph and AI.

Many of these horses seem to need lots of time between races. Maybe they should be tested every few weeks whether they race or not.

Out of competition testing does occur ahead of big stake targets, most notably Breeder's Cup. But as came up last year, those that are cycling steroid/steroid-like meds have taken horses off by the time horses are checked. And then, as seen with this situation, there's matter of things that won't test.

I suspect things that don’t test have always been the issue with this arms race. Modify a molecule or 2 to stay ahead of the tests...

But wait, There's more to come!!!

Twenty-five horses in joint ownership between Dubb/Servis. I want to believe, but Occam's Razor has a place in this discussion.

https://www.thoroughbreddailynews.co...ckening-to-me/

Maybe I’m being petty and vindictive but the max penalty for misbranding is only 5 years imprisonment. Given the harm caused to the sport and bettors, and assuming the evidence supports it, I’d like to see the prosecutors get creative and nail them with something like wire fraud or mail fraud, which typically have higher max penalties. 5 years as a max is not enough for these guys.

I would suggest it would be a good move for all the owners who have used these bottom feeders to suspended from racing anywhere indefinitely until all is sorted out. Like when a police officer is involved in a shooting, he is taken off the streets until all is figured out. Time for a no tolerance stance.

As far as out of racing testing, maybe we should demand all horses be tested at least once every 28 days, at owner's expense, in order to remain eligible to run.

To me this has been the most embarrassing part of the entire ordeal. The owners playing dumb insults everyone’s intelligence.

Brian Trump on Twitter yesterday was saying that he never worked with Peter Miller, who has not been charged but I guess people are speculating. Either way, ridiculous. He’s getting roasted.

Designer Steroids.

I don't buy this assumption that EVERY owner must have known. There's a bit of grab the pitchforks and storm the castle mentality going on.

If the owners HAD to know, did the tracks HAVE to know also? Should we suspend/shut down every track that allowed these guys to run their horses?

I think you’re right. There are definitely owners who knew (Rockingham Ranch, for example). There are some who maybe should have known but never asked questions. And there are probably some who genuinely believed a guy like Servis was just that good.

Take the Wests. How long have they been in the business? 40 years? How much money do they have? I don’t think they’d be on board with what Servis was doing. Again...maybe they should have asked questions. But it’s hard for me to imagine that they intentionally sent a horse to Servis knowing the details of what he was doing. For successful, wealthy owners, I think Servis had a built in excuse and it resonated with owners. A lot of these people are used to people resenting their success and assuming they haven’t completely earned what they’ve got. Even if we assume they might have been aware of the rumors, they also may have been skeptical of them. Success breeds contempt and nobody knows that better than the super wealthy. Just a thought.

Every owner that sent horses to Servis and Navarro knew that those trainers where under question for Years and sent their horses anyway. Claiming they didn't know is laughable.. As a matter of fact it is mind boggling that anyone involved in the sport at any level is somehow surprised that these guys were cheats... I see so many "statements" being issued from different organizations involved in the sport. AYFKM? It would be best if they just didn't respond instead of now looking like ****ing hypocrites who stood around and did NOTHING for YEARS while this **** went on.

I was going to respond also but you summed it up perfectly here.

If you send horses to move up trainers that win in the 30% range you’re co-signing on with whatever they do to attain that gaudy win %

They may not have known the specifics of what their trainers were doing, but the idea that they had no idea these guys were taking an edge to win at 30+% in a sport where winning at 15% is an accomplishment is laughable. And yeah, racetracks should share some blame too.

I generally agree with you guys...and that at the very least these owners SHOULD have known or asked more questions...but I think we are looking at it from the perspective of a bettor, not the perspective of a very wealthy owner.

I’m hesitant to say anything that even remotely defends them, but I don’t think it’s fair to assume what they did and didn’t know. Like I said, Rockingham Ranch appears to have been very much involved. I don’t think that’ll be the case for every owner. But yes, almost every owner should have known something was up.

And as an aside, Tom Albertrani and Barclay Tagg apparently use the same veterinarian as Servis. I’m not going to assume that either of those guys are somehow implicated by this though. I think we’ve got to see where things stand when the dust settles.

Moses with all due respect here since you seem to genuinely be a smart and nice guy. What you are saying would imply that the owners knew nothing whatsoever about the sport which they were investing huge sums of money in. They were all very successful in their core business. Do you think that they would just blindly spend millions of dollars without any research whatsoever nor seek expert opinions? We are not talking about someone that puts a couple hundred bucks into a 100 person Partnership here..

couldn't copy the data from the
searchbut the 2019 trainers is interesting :eek:

current trainer stats gulfstream 2020


http://www.equibase.com/stats/View.c...trainer&rbt=TB

monmouth 2019 meet

http://www.equibase.com/stats/View.c...trainer&rbt=TB

Ugh. I’m struggling with this because a large part of me really doesn’t want to accept that people could be so terrible.

They are. Most gazillionaires are. Time to cope with that reality my man.

I’ve been going back and forth. My initial thought was “they knew.” I’ve probably overthought it.

I think Ateam hit the nail on the head saying they might not have known the specifics, but they knew they were doing something to get an edge.

I get that the West’s are very philanthropic but they’ve employed guys like Cole Norman in the past. Not to speak ill of the dead but he won at an obscene rate and before he went to prison for 9 months for negligent homicide he was facing a lengthy suspension for carbon dioxide violations.

They like to win. Period.

I will say it one more time. Forget about the Wests - no one gave a damn about them in New York. What about Michael Dubb? That's the lightening rod.

I don’t disagree.

Dubb is supposed to know better. Winning is a lot more fun than losing

But he doesn't. Aside from a rather brief time when he used Joe Orseno about 15 years ago, Dubb's primary New York trainer has always been among the "suspects of the day." Against this backdrop, it is very disappointing when media who are supposed to know better try to portray him and the other "juice owners" that comprise the clientele of trainers like Servis and Navarro as "sharp" when the reality is that they are the game's more ethically challenged owners.

I'd love to have someone ask Mike Repole why he starting using Rudy and Navarro in the past year. Trying to keep up with the Dubbs?

Repole is a bad example he has given a lot of smallish trainers in NY a shot

Not really. He gave Levine some horses and while my memory isn’t what it used to be, it’s been mostly Pletcher for close to a decade.

Within the last year he’s spread a little but the fact he sent Navarro horses AFTER the juiceman video and AFTER all of his medications overages is a really bad look.

I'm looking at a bunch of these owners using some of these trainers and claiming "I DIDNT KNOW" as the clueless partner in a relationship with a cheater. I've seen men/women refuse to accept they were cheated on despite mountains of evidence until a baby with a paternity test proving it shows up.

The FBI just dropped the paternity test off to these owners and they're SHOCKED they were cheated on and lied to...

Yep bad look for sure

Trainers have the ultimate responsibility
 

For the horse and all aspects of training boarding and vet care!
Certainly, we can agree that all people indicated in race-fixing or race "Doping" should be "Cut Loose" Fired and immediately suspended and ran off all tracks.
Let's get all the facts, prosecute with honest due diligence and get rid of this and get on with the "Sport of Kings"
Stop acting like this is a bush track in Alabama and realize that this is at the very root of the game and the gambling that makes it go.
This is a watershed moment for this industry but I know of many very smart people and people with absolute honesty that can take charge of this and get us a national drug-testing program recognize the world over and get me back trying to hit that damm cross country pick 5