You have no idea how much that Distaff photo cost me....
Here's how I view Songbird.
At 2 & 3 she was as good as it gets,nobody could get near her(except Beholder)........plain and simple.
I never bought into the speed figure argument criticizing her,half the time Mike Smith had her shut down.........she could of run faster if Smith pleased.
The other "phantom" knock on her was she was third best in her first defeat..........you run that one by a majority of sharps that puts serious time/effort/money into the game and you'll be laughed out of the room.
At 3 she was better then every F/M except Beholder.........fact.
This year: I'll start this by saying I thought Beholder was through before the BCD last year..........I couldn't of been more wrong,so who's to say I won't be wrong again.
But I just don't see the same Songbird.........can't quite put my finger on it,perhaps it's as simple as she just doesn't do things as easily as before.
Or........ she's just taking awhile to sharpen this year........I don't know.
But right now I think others are going better.
Of course......if she wins the Distaff(at a number to boot)she returns to the rarefied air she was once in..........right now I don't think she will,but since this is horse racing........I'm probably wrong........she'll probably find the winners circle on BC Friday.

She'd be maybe the sixth best filly in the crop that had Inside Information, Heavenly Prize, Lakeway, Sardula and Phone Chatter.

As good as it gets?

Wow.

Slow down a little,I wasn't referencing horses of the past.......I was talking about everything that she ran against on the track.

Oh, sorry. I seem to be misreading people on here recently.

When you said as good as it gets, it seemed like you were engaging in Alabama Stakes level hyperbole.

No sweat....
Just to engage a bit.
I'll list my top 5 F/M of all time( caveat here.......I've learned to never mention Z or RA in any thread on any message board.......for obvious reasons,so they weren't factored into this list).

1) RUFFIAN
2) Princess Rooney
3) Genuine Risk
4) Inside Information
5) Paseana

Why never mind historical fillies because you are sane? That is what folks perhaps not you deemed her to be, she isnt. BTW Curlina's best was darn good infrequent but she was fast.

It was a dopey question but speaks to the insane rep she has garnered as the best EVAH. People dont know the difference between Land over Sea and Lite Light. People called her Go for Wand, Ruffian, Personal Ensign, Inside Information, Rachel, Zenyatta etc. she barely is in Ashado's league.

Several of the fillies you list would absolutely beat her half the time and that's the issue, she is as fast those and compared with the true greatest

Inside Information wasn't fast at 2 or 3, not particularly adept at getting two turns, and apparently not particularly sound since her 3yo season ended halfway through, so a case could be made that Songbird would have trounced her at 3.

Personal Ensign ran all of 4 times as a 3yo coming off a severe leg fracture, with only 2 starts in stakes races and only one Grade 1 (the Beldame) getting 10f in 2:04+.

Zenyatta never ran at 2 or 3 and rarely started on a dirt track.

So there's inflation on both sides of the argument. Perhaps its moot now that Songbird has run 3 relatively slow races at 4, but she theoretically still has two cracks at it.

If she throws up a 110+ or two the way Stellar Wind and Beholder did late in their careers what judgment will pass from your lips, O Wise One?

No its moot because the ole Bone Bruising has forced her to retirement

Like I posted yesterday, owner Rick Porter was the biggest hurdle Songbird would have to jump to validate her career.

I blame Maggie Wolfendale's post-race interview. Oh well.

Statement from Rick Porter:

Photos of her Vet report at Fox Hill Farm's Facebook page. LINK

You even sound like an ******* the way you post the news. Are you gonna kick a puppy or 2 on your walk back to the nursing home ?

Nah love pups especially my new Tibetan Terrier Jax. I am not a vet I have no clue if she was really hurt. I dont know Dr. Bramlage I have no reason not to believe his diagnosis. That said I do wonder if her HoF trainer who was dissed by SB's owner after her defeat would have shuttled her to hospital just "because" like her owner has. She had a fine career among the very best I look forward to seeing her offspring race, I think she will be an outstanding producer.

I wonder how many graded horses can be diagnosed with "Bone Bruising" if you invest the money to investigate such. Seems to me, that running 40+ mph would cause some damage but I really dont know.

I tell you what Forever Unbridled is a complete laimo that runs by appt and I am sure we can find reasons to retire her at any moment. She must be some kind of science experiment to get fit to run

Forever Unbridled is not the type of horse to root for either, 3 race campaign is not exactly what the sport needs.

Nah love pups especially my new Tibetan Terrier Jax. I am not a vet I have no clue if she was really hurt. I dont know Dr. Bramlage I have no reason not to believe his diagnosis. That said I do wonder if her HoF trainer who was dissed by SB's owner after her defeat would have shuttled her to hospital just "because" like her owner has. She had a fine career among the very best I look forward to seeing her offspring race, I think she will be an outstanding producer.

I wonder how many graded horses can be diagnosed with "Bone Bruising" if you invest the money to investigate such. Seems to me, that running 40+ mph would cause some damage but I really dont know.

I tell you what Forever Unbridled is a complete laimo that runs by appt and I am sure we can find reasons to retire her at any moment. She must be some kind of science experiment to get fit to run

Come on man its astounding she runs at all you see her action down the lane? it was painful to watch. Dallas is a miracle worker.

Freddy, its early for the blue stuff

Porter has almost as many excuses for Songbird's losses as Hillary Clinton.

Loss

Can I steal this for tweeter its Beemie worthy

Please feel free, Freddy!

The new article up at bloodhorse said she's going up for sale and that she was visibly lame and extremely lucky to not have had a catastrophic break down. This makes hollendorfer look incompetent.

Porter said same thing a few minutes back on TVG. In my opinion this throws Hollendorfer under the bus.

The veterinary report states that jogging in a straight line there was no obvious lameness. It was only when she was circled in either direction that any lameness was visible.

Its probably rare for horses to be jogged on a circle during routine pre- and post-race exams by horsemen in the setting of a shed row. If they did, there'd probably be even smaller fields, many more race day scratches, and earlier retirements.

The report also mentioned that there was no obvious external swelling on the horse even if a hind end issue was suspected.

"We flew her to Louisville, they vanned her (to Rood & Riddle), and as soon as she came off ... Bramlage said he noticed right away that she was off behind,"

Saw that, too.

It's a question of whether you believe hearsay or actual documentation from the original source.

Hollendorfer is pretty conservative and frankly I see now way he just runs to run, aint his style.

That was a quote from Porter. That sells out Hollendorfer but makes Porter look like an ass.

The owner is a bit all over the place and misquoted the examining vet a couple of times if we take the actual vet report as objectively true (and the turf writer's article as accurately quoting Porter).

Porter says the vet notice the lameness right off the van, but the vet reports that it was only by jogging under special conditions (i.e., circling) that the lameness was apparent, and was "not obvious" jogging in a straight line.

Porter also says that the reason the horse had a front end issue was because of the hind end problems: "When he found out she was lame after he blocked the back, and when he got to the front end—which he thinks was caused by the back end—that was major."

In the vet report, the exact opposite is stated: "the front...problem is the root cause of her getting sore behind..."

What's apparent is that Songbird's physical issues were ongoing and did not originate from the Personal Ensign effort alone. Every race she was running in was cashing a check on her body's account. The connections, armed with the knowledge of how much her issues have progressed, are simply making a judgment call that her body can't cash any more checks.

That's fair enough, but its an imperfect science predicting the actual stopping point. There might have been one or two more checks left to write...at the same time, those checks might have bounced.

Basically IF she had won the photo and everyone was all smiles, she would have been back to her old self rounding back into her elite form(something you suggested I sort of agreed) . She fly's home, they treat her accordingly with appropriate medication if indicated and they see if another check will clear in 8 weeks.. Just like virtually every other horse that is responsibly campaigned.

2 feet between Responsibly Retired and Responsibly Campaigned.

Exactly. 2 friggin feet from winning her race, flying home resting, and being responsibly cared for and back for another crack at Distaff. Instead Dorf is made to look like a cretin running busted horses. Racing as usual is its own worst enemy.

Because I never thought she deserved the over the top rep never meant I didnt KNOW her trainer deserved every ounce of his. Some things you cant make up