We can only judge by what we saw. He ran twice on the turf and was a BEAST both times.

How can you say we'll never know?

This was the basis of my pick....2 races as a 3 year old against older horses .....wins by 5 and 6 1/2 lengths ....one a track record...

However, regarding the female Waya she was one of the best and had no qualms to take on the boys and beat them.

This was the basis of my pick....2 races as a 3 year old against older horses .....wins by 5 and 6 1/2 lengths ....one a track record...

However, regarding the female Waya she was one of the best and had no qualms to take on the boys and beat them.

This was the basis of my pick....2 races as a 3 year old against older horses .....wins by 5 and 6 1/2 lengths ....one a track record...

However, regarding the female Waya she was one of the best and had no qualms to take on the boys and beat them.

but affirmed success did enough for you to include him in this thread?

I cant believe no one said Zenyatta

On both surfaces, yes.

he's the best turf/dirt horse in the past 50 years? lol oh my. and you dare question secretariat? wow.

I didn't say that...he came to mind as a horse able to run in Grade 1s effectively on both surfaces...i was in no way comparing him to Secretariat of course....just more to the point of the original question....I like horses who have actual campaigns and run past there 3 yr old season but that's me.

Feel free to share the Grade 1 turf races that Affirmed Success was effective racing in.

Secretariat ran in two of the biggest, maybe the two biggest, of his time...and had blowout wins in both.

Then you insinuate that Secretariat didn't have an "actual campaign." Maybe you should check out his pps again.

Didn't win a Grade 1 on turf but I do believe he wasn't far off. Raced till 9. http://www.oldfriendsequine.org/hors...uccess-12.html

That's a campaign....As for Sec, it's a tired discussion on here and is in the reading room. Yes I think he is overrated....I'm sorry you think my example is a bum. With legends like Einstein mentioned in the thread, I was getting more of a stream on consciousness vibe about the topic. I should have run it by you first. All better.

I'll ignore your attention grabbing silliness and focus on facts. Affirmed Success ran on the turf 8 times. He was 11th in the BC Turf Mile in his only Grade 1 attempt in this country. Close, but no cigar.

Back on ignore you go.

That's funny, I guess this country's Grade 1s are the only ones that matter? Wasn't he 2nd or 3rd in the Atto? So beneath you to ignore stats that don't help, but like the rebate thread unfortunately admitting when you are wrong is not an ability you have on here.

And now that you are ignoring me moving forward I'm sure we will get along just fine. :D

Mecke was a neat horse and did extremely well on both surfaces.

The plan was to campaign Afleet Alex on the turf for his 4yr old year. Add him to the list of "What if".

I asked Eddie Maple one time who was the best horse you ever rode and was sure he was going to say Devils Bag. He said hands down, Secretariat. I had forgotten he rode him in Canada in his last race

yeah, turcotte was suspended i believe.

how absurd.
you think a long campaign makes a horse better? affirmed success was a hard knocker who was able to run for several years, doesn't make him a top horse. for him to be included in a thread about the best turf/dirt horse in the last 50 years is laughable at best.

if you're going to be a polemicist, at least make an honest effort.

Vanlandingham won Grade 1's on both turf and dirt in the year he was the champion older horse. He's no Secretariat but belongs in the conversation with some of the others.

Or not.

i don't know that he even ran in the wood. won the gotham, ran in the lexington and left the triple crown trail after that effort.

after seeing some of the horses mentioned, i guess just about any belong at this point. but better than john henry? no.

Sure seems he has to rate as #1

Vanlandingham actually was VERY good ( he is somewhat the horse that put Shug on the map ), though his big turf win was in the DC International over an extraordinarily boggy turf course. For some reason, I think his other big turf win was at Hollywood Park. But, make no mistake, he was very good.

Just for kicks, I'll throw in the name of Perrault. He finished first in the Big Cap, won the Hollywood Gold Cup, won the San Luis Rey (then GI Turf) defeating John Henry, and won the Arlington Million in 1:58 and change. He was pretty good on both surfaces.

It's tough to beat old John' though. He's still the only horse to win both the Santa Anita Handicap AND the Arlington Million twice. And in addition to his wins in the San Juan Capistrano, Oak Tree Invitational (3X), and NY's Turf Classic, he managed to throw in a victory in the Jockey Club Gold Cup just for fun.

I don't know about 50 years, but it's hard to think of a horse that was better on both surfaces in the last 35 or 40 years than John Henry.

oh, i know he was good. you'll get no argument from me on that score.

i wrote that in my post since it was the original question. it seemed like it was forgotten as the actual point of the thread, at least where randall is concerned.

Did you not read my stream of consciousness post? I was thinking about a horse who would be just as likely to run turf and dirt in graded stakes....plus he was a favorite of mine. Maybe you have favorites too.:wf

I'm not sure they would be put into the "best" category but here were some I remember running very well on both surfaces:

Pearl Necklace (although she never raced against the boys)
Late Bloomer
Bowl Game Grade 1 winner on turf and dirt

How about a fun horse like Effervescing? Wins the American Handicap on July 4th on the grass, then wins the Citation 5 days later on the dirt, beating eventual Eclipse award winning sprinter Dr. Patches. One of D. Wayne's first big thoroughbred accomplishments.

Best to me were Waya and Secretariat.

i do have favorites. however, i'm not about to call them 'great' because i like them.

A new fun police member. Who said great? Arromanches....he was great.

Two horses that wouldn't be in the running for best but that won grade one races on both surfaces and haven't gotten a mention are Hawkster and Prized. Many people forget Prized was good enough to beat Sunday Silence on dirt and then a couple of starts later, won the BC Turf in his grass debut. My candidate for best or at least could have been in the running would be Candy Ride.

The best horse he ever beat was that Frankel horse in the Monmouth turf race, I dont believe he was awesome on either surface. I feel like he was fortunate to never face much on either surface.

Good call. He sure ran a few monster races on each surface.

Another C. Whittingham star who ran well on dirt or grass was Greinton.....

Bump.

Gentlemen. I think he's probably the best turf and dirt horse of the last twenty years or so. Candy Ride too might have been there.

When Gentlemen decided to run, he was truly freakish.

Overskate.........track record holder for decades and if not for a lost shoe at over 50-1 my freshman year at Fordham would have improved my chances of getting laid by decades

after today...........Declaration of War............

It is now Declaration of Byk