Speaking of douchey dressed jockey agents...




Any man who portrays himself to be a heterosexual, and wears pink collard shirts, should obviously be euthanized for the betterment of society.







Lime Green isn't that much better, either.

Channing Hill is BEYOND putrid. Never really followed NY when he was there, but he has been putrid here this meet. This was the first time I had a chance to watch him ride and I'm shocked he could even win races in NY.

I'm pretty sure collard is part of the name of a vegtable. Funny I'd know that since clearly I haven't been partaking in many recently.

Otherwise, great post. Adds tons to the Rosario West/East coast debate.

Thanks for listening.

And furthermore. I'd have worn a grass skirt and Dickinson high heels if necessary to have the opportunity to take a picture with that particular young lady.

Maybe just a bit jealous? Eh?

Vic, how did it feel to have your prized midget heisted from you by a former 7% jockey who wears fedoras?

Horrible. I was crushed. Thought I had done a great job.

I guess he forgot that in recent history that Bejarano couldn't get mounts in New York and went west where he is the top rider in that killer California colony.

Vic,

I didn't want to be the person to tell you this. But circumstances being what they are and me having some free time at the moment... I will go ahead.

There's something called a Gaussian function that when graphed produces a bell-shaped curve. Studies show that in any type of population, the majority fall within a fairly narrow distribution of the middle -- or AVG -- which we will call normal. But there are a few who fall outside of that zone, which we will call abnormal. Bell curves are sometimes associated with height, weight, intelligence, sex appeal, income etc.

There is also a Bell curve for likability. Most people are in the middle. They are likable enough. There are a very few on one end of the curve that some would call charismatic and popular. Mostly everyone likes them and people will willingly over-promote and exaggerate their skills. They are just fun to be around. And then there are people like you, which are well to the opposite of that spectrum. You are universally disliked. In your entire life, I suspect, you have found the sh!t end of the stick in terms of your interactions with other human beings.

Society used to put people like you under bridges. Most present-day people like you are employed by the DMV.

Dogs are a fairly good detecter of normal. I suspect that dogs growl at you or generally hide when you come around. Even man's best friend wants nothing to do with you.

Unfortunately, there is no cure for your situation. In other words, there is absolutely nothing you can do to make people like you. If you started handing out $100 bills to everyone you met, I guarantee that 99% of them would tell the next person they saw that they got $100 from the biggest assh@le they've ever met. It isn't your fault. You were born "boorish", irritating and pathetic. It is who you are. It is hard-coded in your DNA. You are what you are.

Unfortunately, there is no solution. At the very least, you could attempt a serious personality overhaul.

Personally, I love being hated -- but for me, it often takes remarkable effort to earn peoples disdain and disrespect.

Did you do a good job with Rosario? Absolutely. Unfortunately for you, he didn't need your help anymore. He became too big to want you associated in any way as an attachment.

I suppose you could get a life coach and a therapist to try and help you with your problem -- but -- at the end of the day, likability reprograming just doesn't exist.

so....how 'bout those Yankees?

Boy if only I had $1.00 for everytime I've been told that exact same thing.

Hey! What about that Heat/OKC series? Lebron really steppin it up huh!

And another thing. I understand Gaussian is pissed cuz his horse got claimed. If he leaves the Lakers though it'll be a bigger mistake than Rosario going east!

I really don't understand your plea/post. Wouldn't a good goal be, trying to be the best of your profession? OK, he has accomplished a lot in California and no one is taking anything away from him. Although dominant might be a bit over the top, especially when the feeling seems to be (or at least the one I get) is that Raffie is the go to money guy out there. But I agree he has done very well for himself out there. But possibly it's to the point where he feels like he's accomplished all he's going to accomplish out there and he's starting to spin his wheels. If he wants to be the best and get nationally recoginized then he's going to the right place.

I really don't understand what jocks going from east to west has to do with the situation. What's the worst thing that could happen? If he bombs in NY, he'll just go back west and his buisness will eventually go back to normal. It's not like it's that deep of a colony out there Vic.

Now I have no idea if of Rosario's personal life, but I wish I could spend the summer in Saratoga. As far as NY goes, Belmont and Aqueduct are what 10 miles from each other. Besides what about the times that he will be able to ride in muliple races at different tracks on the same day. Can't do that from California. Ok winters on the inner can be brutal, but Ramon deals with it. If Joel rides to his ability he should have no problem going to Florida and getting mounts for the winter if he doesn't want to brave the cold. So obviously I'm not buying the logistics deal either.

Not sure what you are saying about his mornings, but I almost feel like you are trying to knock a hole in his work ethic. As far as the agents colluding to freeze out other jocks, isn't that another knock? If he's so dominant, why do the agents need to do that. Shouldn't all the trainers be knocking down his door?

I just feel like for a guy who used to be his agent and friend who raved about his ability all the time, this is far from the strong vote of confidence that I would expect from you. Not even a good luck Joel, I just find the whole commentary very strange and disappointing. Makes me think that this is just a case of sour grapes.

We don't have to understand Vic...we just have to hear him

Having represented many jockeys over the years including Joel my post was an opinion about what I would advise and think would be in his best interests professionally. Period.

I totally understand wanting to conquer new challenges and have new life's experiences. I get that. Especially for a young man like Joel. Furthermore I 100% agree he can leave, come back, and be embraced and dominant immediately.

As far as East/West goes. There can only be three guys in the top three in each place. Duh! Joel is unquestionably 1 or 2 here in California. Based on the last 3 years I would say #1. Heady stuff and believe me being leading rider is VERY important to these guys.

To expect to be on top in NY at least for the immediate is unreasonable. Joel rode here for 2 years before breaking into the top five. So lot's of time and effort will have to be put in. No doubt in my mind he has the talent to do it. My question is why bother when he's already a kingpin here? He's a 20 something and I'm a set in my ways old fart of 53 so again I do understand.

As far as his work ethic. I view that as just the opposite. I'm not knocking him at all. When I had his book it was occasionally an issue. I felt it was the difference between him being 3rd to Gomez and Bejarano and being No. 1. It's something alot of young millionaires in many sports must have to focus on. He was getting a thousand times better towards the end of our working together and now with Ronnie he misses no mornings or afternoons. I truly believe Ronnie is better for Joel than I was. He's more of a friend while I felt some generational friction. I think I pestered and pushed a little more than he liked while Ronnie approaches motivation from a different angle and Joel has responded wonderfully.

I have no more sour grapes than any other human he felt was unjustly fired. However I've moved on. My relationship with Joel is friendly and respectful. I'm certainly happy when he does well. I root for him always and take some pride in knowing I was instumental in his success and ascent to becoming an elite rider.

Agents that have enough power and business to work together and freeze others out is tried and true good business. Be it horseracing or any other endeavour. I never did that with Joe Ferrer cuz I liked the competetion too much. Just wanted to beat him straight up. Rarely did. Talk about top flight agents. That guy is the Black Mamba.

spa
 

Rosario will be the leading rider at Saratoga. Y'all forget about the most important thing....hosses run for him. He's damn good.

At least Vic is remotely related to the subject of this thread, so it is somewhat understandable that the thread has become about him. In comparison, it took some serious hubris for Vic to insert himself into the discussion about IHA missing the Belmont. http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47071

When you make the most ridiculous post in a thread where Vic Stauffer is prevalent you have accomplished something. Congratulations.

It's also pretty interesting that Vic conveniently left Richard Migliore's West Coast success out of his argument. I guess when you are knocking Hall of Famers that ventured West when the majority of board members weren't even born yet, it's easy to dismiss the efforts and successes of one of the true good guys in this industry, especially when it happened just a few years ago. Why applaud the truly deserving when you can unfairly besmirch the achievements of others.

Robbie Davis did fairly well when he rode in Southern California in 1989 and 1990. He ended up winning seven stakes at the 1989 Del Mar meet.

see, no need to travel...eventually you can just read it here. :D

I liked the part where he implied that California has stiffer competition in its jockey colony than NY. An absolute gem of myopic hysteria from the king himself.

Huge fan of Richard Migliore. Was lucky enough to get to know him a bit when working for Joel. Very talented rider and consumate professional.

Where did I imply that?

Fair point. You actually flat out stated it.

Show me the quote. Us myopic whatever's sometimes lose track since we're always thinking of ourseleves.

Four pages of posts about a stupid person from a profession loaded with stupid people, making perhaps a really stupid decision?

Woah.

You're right. It's usually six pages.

He's a horse whisperer, eh? Explain his stats this year in graded stakes compared to the top 5.

I guess those guys that are much better statistically when it matters are part horse, eh?

Ok.

For 2012, through May, Rosario is 4th in Graded wins behind JRV, Castellano and Ramon D.

For 2011:

Rank/Jockey/ Tot Graded Wins/ (G1-G2-G3) Graded Stakes W%

1, Velasquez/32/(7,5,15)/ 13%
2. Dominguez/27/(10,5,12)/ 8%
3. Castellano/26/(11,8,7)/ 9%
4. Rosario/ 25/(9-8-8)/ 9%

Other Graded win %'s for the rest of the top 10:

Bejarano 9%
Gomez 15%
Garcia 13%
Lezcano 10%
Leparoux 7%
Maragh 10%

Seems pretty clear to me.

Kerwin John rode regularly at Mountaineer Park in 2002 and 2003 and was a 3% jockey there. You could have taken a poll of trainers asking to rate the top 20 jockeys at MNR and no one would have named Kerwin.

The very next year - Kerwin John finished 8th in the standings at Del Mar and had more wins and a higher win percentage than a very accomplished jockey like Mike Smith (who also moved East to West) Kerwin was 6th in the standings at Hollywood Park.

Kerwin went from a 3% win percentage and having no luck finding a decent mount anywhere in West Virginia in 2003 - to having three mounts on the Breeders Cup card in 2004.

One of them, Island Fashion, was like 5/1 or so in the $2 million BC Distaff off her win in the Lady's Secret last out. He was a nobuddy in West Virginia and Ohio -- and in a snap of a finger -- he's winning Grade 1 races and live on the Breeders Cup card.

It's all about opportunity and fashion. When these guys without much ability finally fall out of favor - they tank. Just as a guy without an ounce of ability will put up big surprisingly strong numbers if they stumble into opportunity.

Where did you get these stats? I don't think they're accurate for 2012.

Rosario hasn't been riding up to his high standard of late. However, he's made. He doesn't need to anymore.

Here is Rosario's stats in route races over the past 12 months:

Starts: 512
Win %: 21%
ROI: $1.47


He's losing 26.5% on every dollar bet -- and he's no longer a fierce ground saver. He looks for the clean, clear, wide trip way more often than ever before. He had Creative Cause about 8-wide the entire way around the far turn in the Kentucky Derby.

In the Preakness, it was he and not Hastings Park nobuddy Mario Guitereaz, who used his horse a little early to try and keep Bodemeister a little honest.

The thing I loved about Ramon Dominguez -- even after he long established himself as the kingpin of the Mid-Atlantic circuit and had earned the best mounts. He didn't just go out and try and settle for the clean, clear, wide trip with everything.

Quite the opposite, Dominguez would park himself on the rail (even with favorites) and try and save every morsel of ground on the turns. The guy went 9 out of 10 years where he produced a strong profitable ROI in turf route races. That's never been done before.

Dominguez eventually had to get away from his great habits a little bit in New York -- but he is still someone who will save ground on turns and he is still a master of getting out of jams. He was fun to watch in the Mid-Atlantic though, he had no panic in him and a lot of times would make Houdini like escapes and win with horses who were sometimes 3rd or 4th best.

I remember Kerwin John riding at Finger Lakes before Mountaineer. He made John Grabowski look like Cordero.

Did he too crawl back from California with his tail between his legs?

John Grabowski -- "The Polish Rifle"

Wasn't that Ron Jaworski?? Or are you thinking of the Amish Rifle, Ryan Fitzpatrick? 😃