What complete nonsense. Get a grip on reality. The Tea Party alone caused the downgrade, and they, and the Republican House that couldn't control them, own it.

It's the small subset of novice people with their "no raising the debt ceiling" complete financial idiocy that caused this. Can't wait until they are voted out of Congress next year. One and done. Anyone can be elected to the House, and that sure proved it.

And yesterday we have Ryan telling his caucus to "stand firm" and refuse all tax increases in the future. These people are literally destroying America with their stupidity and quest to destroy our government and our country, and obtain political power.

That said, we have the biggest Republican Do Nothing Congress in decades - this country is in recession and all they've done is name post offices? - a Republican Senate Minority Leader in McConnell who has said he will take the debt ceiling hostage for political purposes again and again, and that his primary legislative goal is to make the President fail.

How dare he.

Two years of complete political obstructionism by the Republican party, now literally causing harm to this country with the ratings fall (not that S & P is a paragon of ratings virtue). That was just S & P, Wall Street, jerking their owned Republican leashes for being stupid about the economy. These treasonous, unpatriotic jackasses have to lose their jobs, and they will next fall. Politics before country - eff them.

this is so ridiculous it makes me question your sanity.

sure, the tea party had a helping hand, but they were FAR from alone in causing it.

Obama and the dems own it as much as the tea partiers do. And the american people know that.

The failure of the President to accept Ryan's budget plan caused the downgrade. The head of the S&P is on video stating such.

But Obama still considering us AAA is what really counts. :wf

do you really think we would not have been downgraded had the congress just raised the debt ceiling two months ago and done nothing else (spending cuts)?

You must not be listening to S&P. the political postering surely didnt help the situation, but its the out of control spending that caused this downgrade. Both Parties are to blame for that, and actually, the tea party might be the only ones you cant blame for the spending.

you giving the dems a free pass on this is so illogical.

Baloney. Boehner and Obama compromised with $4 trillion and tax increases through loophole cutting (exactly what S & P's, Moody's, etc. wanted, because they talked to the President), and the Tea Party congressional Republicans nixed it.

Who held the good faith and credit of the US hostage by refusing to raise the debt ceiling? The Tea Party and the GOP.

Who created two months of drama over a routine raise of the debt ceiling? The Tea Party and the GOP.

And you question my sanity? Look at reality. No - Obama and the Dems didn't do any of that - they compromised while the GOP gave up nothing and brought this country to the brink of disaster. And the American people know that.

Name one thing the Dems or Obama did to obstruct raising the debt ceiling? You can't. It doesn't exist.

who spend the original 14.2 trillion? you know, the thing that got us in this mess.

Answer: a mixture of GW and Obama policies.

they both fail and all of them in Washington caused this.

You are pretty much the only person I've read/heard that lets the Dems off the hook.

What bullshit. The GOP didn't even accept Ryans Budget. And the S & P guy said that on Fox News Sunday, now with an edited video making the rounds. Read the S & P published announcement statement where they jerk their Republicans leashes for being stupid and moronic about dealing with the debt crisis, and called them out by name.

And not only does Obama still consider us AAA, the market does, too - you'll notice they all rushed into US Treasuries yesterday as stocks fell.

The Tea Party caused this? Tell me - how much debt spending did the Tea Party actually do? Wild spending liberals did this. They don't understand math anyway - their condescension and arrogance notwithstanding.

Or maybe you think that since the Tea Party actually made their representatives do what they said they would do - cut spending -that they are the problem. In other words, eternally expanding borrowing IS possible, according to you.

Stop reading the talking points of Obama and Dems and think for yourself. Then you'll see how ridiculous your statement above looks.

More Kool-Aid?
No Blame at all?
You are out there all alone.

Whatever Obama considers us to be, AAA, or otherwise is irrelevant.

they shot down a handful of bills themselves. I'm not saying they were great bills but prob better than what was passed. and the Dems refuse to address reforming entitlements. thats a huge obstruction right there.

to believe the dems had nothing to do with the credit downgrade is batshit crazy.

to be fair... the republican controlled congress going through 2006 certainly spent like crazy and helped cause this. The dem controlled congress just kept the spending going, maybe a little more hog wild.

the tea party is the only group that hasnt spent like crazy. but they have their major faults. why they refuse to close loopholes in taxes is beyond me.

Really? "A handful"? Which ones? Name them. You can't, it doesn't exist.

There were three "deal", and the Tea Party nixed them all. Only a few TP crossed over and voted for the ones that passed. Not the Dems. And the Dems agreed, although they didn't want to, to entitlement reforms. The Dems compromised, the old politician GOP compromised, the Tea Party is a bunch of idiotic, financial fools hell bent upon destroying this country to demagogue their ridiculous ideals.

Sorry - this is a completely false argument. Blaming the Dems for the Tea Party craziness is factually wrong.

Wrong. I read their press release. You should, too, rather than listen to Faux News interpretations.

We were downgraded because of politics. We were downgraded as the debt ceiling was not routinely raised two months ago, as it has been 79 times before, and the Tea Party (although S & P named the Republicans) obstructed our political process so much that S & P had to jerk the GOP leash with the fake insult of the downgrade.

The debt ceiling raise is our promise to continue to pay bills we have already incurred - the Tea Party threatened we would not do that, that we would not pay back the money we'd already borrowed. The Tea Party put the full faith and credit of the United States hostage for their ridiculous political theatre. The Tea Party said not paying back our creditors and bills literally didn't matter, that there would be no consequence. What idiots! And that - the political theatre - is what caused S & P to downgrade us.

You need some help. You can place blame on all sides. This actually goes back to the Clinton days with the ridiculousness of him, good old Mr. Frank, Fannie, Freddie, etc. It is with GW and with Obama. It also could be with Mr. Bernancke, Mr. Greenspan and all of the actions taken by the Fed. We have been printing $, spending ridiculously and with no accountability on either side. Obama did not create the problem, but he is not willing to take the necessary steps to help fix it. The solutions are not fun and not going to be very popular. Obama could learn alot from WI and how Governor Walker albeit not popular with everyone has started to take the state in the right direction. I know you disagree with this, but the proof is starting to come out and in the next 2 years unless the dems screw it up you will see how well this can work. It is amazing how where their were deficits in WI there are now surplusses. It is happening even in Milwaukee, imagine that

you're and idiot with that Faux News interpretation crap. I barely watch fox.

your interpretation of why we were downgraded is only about 15% correct. You ignore the main factors.

this is a pointless debate. your opinion isnt going to change.. and you wont be changing the opinion of the 95% of people who disagree with you on this.

:tro::tro::tro:

very good and honest post

But certainly not equally. Sorry, but trying to blame Obama and the Dems for the S & P downgrade is beyond absurd and factually insubstantiable.

Those "surpluses" are pretty fake, and are some nifty accounting tricks - check out what Walker isn't including in his "budget".

No, I am going from the S & P press release. We were downgraded due to political intransigence. Who did that? The Tea Party. S & P's even blamed the GOP. Why don't you google it and read it?

You're right - facts don't matter to some folks, when forming their opinions.

So much time spent affixing blame and so little time on fixing the problem by congress. So much arguing on this thread that not many of you realize that you are getting DP'd.

Oh, no, we've been getting it for the past 12 years, and nobody (including the Dems) are actively doing anything about it. And yes, Clinton started plenty of deregulation.

This congress won't do crap. They are already the second-most do nothing congress in our recent history. A political party publicly stating that their elected legislative duties are only to make sure the President of the United States fails? While this country and it's citizens need help? Eric Cantor just this past weekend saying joblessness is the most important thing, but no, he sees no reason at all to extend jobless benefits? Zero jobs bills presented by the House since they were elected? Zero? Nothing except deliberately removing societal safety backups for those in poverty or unemployed? Harming the very citizens that elected them?

Un-effing-believable.

I'm not a Democratic, but anybody saying that the two current incarnations of our political parties are the same, no difference, isn't very objective.

Stop paying people not to work and they will find jobs. Go compete for work with the illegals. I used to.

Obama Campaign 2008:

"End tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans."

"Increase cap gains and dividend tax from 15% to 20% for the wealthiest Americans."

"Restore the 36% and 39% tax brackets for the wealthiest Americans."

"Exempt seniors earning less than $50,000 from income taxation."
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It's pretty ridiculous that with both houses and a new presidency, he couldn't get it done and now he blames anyone other than himself for his failure.

Hell, it took until Nov 23, 2008 less than 3 weeks after his election when Obama backtracked on repealing the tax cuts on the wealthiest Americans.

I guess it's not really a matter of not being able to get it done as much as it is Obama not even trying.

What a ridiculous bunch of false nonsense. There are 5-10 people for every job opening. Unemployment is 9.2, but higher considering those that have stopped looking.

And you think that all these people are purposely staying unemployed?

Jeebus, help this country.

:tro:

How about "Stop Rewarding Corporations for shipping jobs overseas". He did nothing there either.

He had "both houses" for 90 days. For the first 2 years, he had a Republican Senate that filibustered every single effing thing, that obstructed every single appointment, at record, never-before-seen levels. And that today says their sole goal is to obstruct him and ensure he will not be re-elected.

Can you imagine the screaming if the Dems said that about a GOP President? Let alone actually did it?

No, Obama hasn't been as aggressive as I have personally wanted, but don't make it seem like he didn't get anything done against complete obstruction from the other party. He's gotten quite a bit accomplished, especially his first year.

The left calls him Bush II, and the right calls him a socialist. It's absurd.

Skipped that last part by accident.
No work in your sector, go compete. Landscape, pick fruit, build fences, follow plumbers around carrying tools and pipe, carry lumber, clean up construction sites, etc. etc. etc.
These are all things I have done to not need to deal with not working. Guess what, the people I worked for were more than happy to take me to work over the alternative.

That's what plenty of people are trying to do right now. I have people begging me to hire them for this or that odd jobs. There is a recession: there is no construction, there is no plumbing, there is nobody with money to hire you to cut their lawn, there is nobody to hire you to pick crops in the drought of Texas.

It's absolutely absurd, to think that all the current unemployed - far over the baseline number of "always unemployed" that exists around 4% - are unemployed only by choice and sheer laziness.

That is completely disconnected with reality. God help this country with thoughts like that.

There is construction, if there weren't I would not be paying taxes. I see plenty of people that are most definitely not my neighbors mowing lawns and trimming hedges while driving trucks that say "O'Brien's Landscaping" on the side, not one looks Irish. I am still eating vegatables from the farms that surround my home and ones from California, Florida, North Carolina, etc. Someone is picking these. Texas is irrelevant and should be left out of most conversations involving the rest of the country, they are fine, just ask them. I am imagining your work does not take you around the country to 20-30 states per year and twice as many cities and towns, as I recall you are a veterinarian, but I can assure you that homes are being built and they are being built (mostly) by hard working, non-tax paying, undocumented workers.
Not accusing laziness, just complacency. Easy to confuse the two.

"There is construction, if there weren't I would not be paying taxes."

Please elaborate on the above and also are you are suggesting that someone that was laid off with a College education should compete to be a migrant worker?

So you're sticking with, "If we just kicked them off unemployment, they'd find jobs".

If only that unemployed, $60,000 a year IT technologist would get a job trimming your hedges! If only they would take the jobs of the undocumented farm workers and construction workers.

How unbelievably naive.

:tro: Very good.

Apparently it does mean that, as the simplistic ways all the social programs are handled - contributors are not to get anything more than the non-contributors. The fact that one has an education is irrelevant.

"From each according to his abilities; to each according to his needs" is their mantra.

Not to press a point, but the Farm Laborer's Union had a "Take My Job!" campaign two years ago. Massive failure. No interest.

What a complete bunch of mixed up hogwash. There isn't even a cogent point in there.

I work in construction, that is how I make my money. After college when there were no jobs for college graduates I learned how to work in other ways, crazy I know. And yes I am suggesting exactly that. A college degree is only as useful as the one holding onto it, no? College has become something of a joke in this country, just an extension of dependency for many. Most would be better off skipping it and trying to learn something else.
I actually forgot to mention kitchen work too, did plenty of that to pay the bills.

Why are you supporting the use of illegal undocumented workers on construction sites?

So what does that have to do with an unemployed IT worker, or an unemployed accountant, or an unemployed nurse, or an unemployed teacher?

You think they all should be construction workers? Or migrant workers?

There are plenty of people trying to get new careers, but there are no jobs. Try to apply at your local McDonalds, and see how many are competing for that position.

I do not, I abhor it frankly. I do see it though nearly daily. And I cut my own lawn and trim my own hedges. My employees are all Americans, overpaid, but Americans. Can't have that hanging over my head when I decide to run for office.

If your employees are overpaid, I suggest they have a poor businessman as a boss. And you might stop ignoring illegals working on your projects and taking jobs from Americans. Rather than just, "abhoring, it, frankly" on internet lists.

No habla Espanol