Originally Posted by Seattleallstar (Post 795355)

I wonder who wins at 9 furlongs, Frankel vs Twirling Candy

Originally Posted by PatCummings (Post 795301)

Canford Cliffs beat Goldikova by 3/4 of a length...and FWIW, Peslier was a pound over. Hardly a whipping. Cape Blanco comes back to run well, then wins a G1 in America.



But I am completely, overwhelmingly, UNWILLING to hand out superlatives like the rest of the 21st century yahoos who, in this 24-7 media world, always need to find some degree of how one particular entity (horse, race, ride...in racing parlance, or anything else in the world of sport) is a crowning achievement, the best of the best, etc. Hell, five hours after the call was made, SportsCenter was anointing that home plate play in the 19th inning of the Pirates/Braves game as possibly the worst call EVER! EVER!!!!!!! That's a lot of flippin history of dunce umpiring, not to mention this call was made at 2am.

When I see comments from people that they were crying about this win (as I saw on Facebook), and that some thought they'd never see anything like it again when Goldikova won 3 BC Miles, and suddenly, seven months later they are spewing forth with another round of superlatives for a horse whose career has spanned eight races in 11 months.

Henry Cecil has the right to call Frankel the best horse he's ever laid eyes on, presuming (he's trained many champions, and he has that right) you expect him to know his own stock. But in terms of the rest of us hacks, trying to put perspective on a performance...how about we all use the best modifier for lending perspective...TIME.

Let TIME go by before we declare some of these horses, through eight freakin races, truly great, the best of all time, the supreme champion.

You know why we have to wait? Cause the jolly criers are going to be all aflutter when the next amazing horse of a lifetime crops up next year, or this year, or hasn't debuted yet, or two years from now, etc, etc, etc. A year ago, no one ever heard of Frankel the horse...TIME will tell, and pardon me if happiness in my racing mind isn't sated with another overwhelming superlative. I'll enjoy it for what it was, but reserve personal judgment and superlatives for the passage of time and more experience. It's sensible, rational, and just makes the most damn sense. Those lobbing the ridiculous praise...I'll keep shaking my head and paying no attention to them.

Originally Posted by johnny pinwheel (Post 795384)

i usually don't say much ....just read. but this is a great post except for the "media" part. what about the social media like this forum??? these guys have the "best horse ever syndrome" just about every other month. all a horse has to do is win a couple of races and its the next secretariat.....i don't have to list the horses we all can read but every horse that was supposed to be great, when most turned out to be flops in the end. the media is a reflection of the public.....they blow things up, exagerate, praise and use hyperbola because people like the ones declaring this horse the greatest and that horse the greatest on here .....eat it up. wait until a 2yo comes up with a "break through perfomance" ...the media and people here will have him winning the derby "in november".....his speed ratings will be through the roof....."hes faster than the older horses"....blah,blah, blah. basically, many people are "junkies" for this crap, its like a drug. so the media feeds it to them....its not just sports...its politics and the rest too....at least you are smart enough to sift through it and think for yourself.....excuse me the horse of the "week" is blind luck so i have to read about how she can beat everything on earth now......lol.....hint...we are all flesh and bones ...including these horses ....when you find pegasus let me know......lol. i'm sure someone on here will find one by next month, if they can't the media will tell you how great this horse is....lol....JOLLY CRIERS..... i love it dude...that was priceless.

Originally Posted by Dahoss (Post 795405)

lol

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord (Post 795406)

Before reading a Johnny Pinwheel post ....

If you eat a fat bag of mushrooms right after about 4 hits of acid, then eat both a Calzone from Luchetti's AND an Egg Roll Deluxe from Golden Wok...

the visuals man...the visuals!

Originally Posted by johnny pinwheel (Post 795384)

i usually don't say much ....just read. but this is a great post except for the "media" part. what about the social media like this forum??? these guys have the "best horse ever syndrome" just about every other month. all a horse has to do is win a couple of races and its the next secretariat.....i don't have to list the horses we all can read but every horse that was supposed to be great, when most turned out to be flops in the end. the media is a reflection of the public.....they blow things up, exagerate, praise and use hyperbola because people like the ones declaring this horse the greatest and that horse the greatest on here .....eat it up. wait until a 2yo comes up with a "break through perfomance" ...the media and people here will have him winning the derby "in november".....his speed ratings will be through the roof....."hes faster than the older horses"....blah,blah, blah. basically, many people are "junkies" for this crap, its like a drug. so the media feeds it to them....its not just sports...its politics and the rest too....at least you are smart enough to sift through it and think for yourself.....excuse me the horse of the "week" is blind luck so i have to read about how she can beat everything on earth now......lol.....hint...we are all flesh and bones ...including these horses ....when you find pegasus let me know......lol. i'm sure someone on here will find one by next month, if they can't the media will tell you how great this horse is....lol....JOLLY CRIERS..... i love it dude...that was priceless.

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord (Post 795302)

I cry whenever I read a Molly Jo Rosen status update.

Worse - was the great A. A. R. O. N. --- H. E. S. Z. asking if he was the greatest Euro 3yo of all-time and babbling on and on about his "turn of foot"

Originally Posted by philcski (Post 795444)

Wait, you don't think she's smokin hot?

Originally Posted by philcski (Post 795444)

Wait, you don't think she's smokin hot?

Originally Posted by robfla (Post 795507)

I've seen better heads on pimples and nickel beers

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord (Post 795449)

Originally Posted by brockguy (Post 795562)

I can't think of a better 3 year old I've seen in my lifetime / The runner up may have run a little under his best (I don't have it in front of me but I think he beat the 3rd by 2lengths less than he did at Royal Ascot so he wasn't a mile below what he is capable!) but Frankel readily took care of him and won very cozily - He actually would be a national icon if he came back to run next year!!

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie (Post 795564)

The runnerup ran like crap.

I don't know how people don't see that.

Originally Posted by brockguy (Post 795566)

Why are you so sure he ran like crap?

Originally Posted by brockguy (Post 795566)

Why are you so sure he ran like crap?

Originally Posted by King Glorious (Post 795571)

Because to say anything otherwise would come close to legitimizing Frankel and we just can't have that. I honestly believe that if we had a board like this when Secretariat ran his Belmont or when Spectacular Bid ran his 1:57 4/5, there's a certain group of skeptics on here that would have found fault with those performances. I understand not just jumping in head first whenever we see something that appears to be great and I understand wanting to take the time to analyze it. But sometimes it's ok to admit you've seen greatness and it's ok to appreciate it. People are naturally reluctant to place anything new onto the same level or higher than that which they've romanticized for a long period of time. I get that.

Originally Posted by King Glorious (Post 795571)

Because to say anything otherwise would come close to legitimizing Frankel and we just can't have that. I honestly believe that if we had a board like this when Secretariat ran his Belmont or when Spectacular Bid ran his 1:57 4/5, there's a certain group of skeptics on here that would have found fault with those performances. I understand not just jumping in head first whenever we see something that appears to be great and I understand wanting to take the time to analyze it. But sometimes it's ok to admit you've seen greatness and it's ok to appreciate it. People are naturally reluctant to place anything new onto the same level or higher than that which they've romanticized for a long period of time. I get that.

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie (Post 795583)

By the way, did you even notice CC badly lugging out in the last 1/4 of the race?

What would you call that?

Would you say that that didn't hurt his chances?

Would you say that didn't affect his finish position, relative to the winner?

Or, are you trying to say that it didn't indicate that maybe something was wrong? That lugging/bearing out that strongly is completely meaningless?

In your post, you even say you understand about not jumping in and taking the time to analyze it, yet when two people do just that, they just are being grumpy old farts that don't want to legitimize a great horse.

You really outdo yourself sometimes.

Originally Posted by Mawhip (Post 795593)

Did you ever think he was lugging out because he knew he was soundly defeated and his will was destroyed.

Originally Posted by philcski (Post 795597)

horses don't lug out because they are beaten and their "will is destroyed."

They bear out because 1) don't like the whip, 2) are over the top and tired, or 3) are injured.

Now, I thought highly of the performance but the runner up didn't run his A+ race.

Originally Posted by philcski (Post 795597)

horses don't lug out because they are beaten and their "will is destroyed."

They bear out because 1) don't like the whip, 2) are over the top and tired, or 3) are injured.

Now, I thought highly of the performance but the runner up didn't run his A+ race.

Originally Posted by Mawhip (Post 795593)

Did you ever think he was lugging out because he knew he was soundly defeated and his will was destroyed.

Originally Posted by Mawhip (Post 795600)

How do you know?

He wasn't injured, he's not over the top. Only his third race of the season. And he's never shown a distain for the whip.

I suggest he was beat like he's never been beaten before and that effected him in a way that led to his lugging out. This is just a theory but it's as likely as any other that has been suggested here.

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie (Post 795740)

One more race for Frankel this year, the QE2 at Ascot in October, then he's to return as a 4yo.

No BC.

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie (Post 795583)

By the way, did you even notice CC badly lugging out in the last 1/4 of the race?

What would you call that?

Would you say that that didn't hurt his chances?

Would you say that didn't affect his finish position, relative to the winner?

Or, are you trying to say that it didn't indicate that maybe something was wrong? That lugging/bearing out that strongly is completely meaningless?

In your post, you even say you understand about not jumping in and taking the time to analyze it, yet when two people do just that, they just are being grumpy old farts that don't want to legitimize a great horse.

You really outdo yourself sometimes.

Originally Posted by King Glorious (Post 795140)

I know that it might just be the moment speaking but I am pretty sure that he's the best miler I've ever seen. If you didn't know how good Canford Cliffs was, you'd have still been impressed. Knowing the quality of CC and how easily he was defeated, maybe it's not just the moment speaking. The only thing that's holding me back is that it's likely that Canford Cliffs was injured during the race looking at the way he was drifting out down the lane.

Originally Posted by Seattleallstar (Post 795845)

thats some BS if they dont even attempt the Arc, if this is supposedly the best horse of all European times.

Originally Posted by OTM Al (Post 795886)

He's a miler, not a middle distance runner.