no you are just uninformed.

i root for all philly teams, but i know whats good and not.

Eagles have a shitty defense, sub par offensive line.

Sixers have a lot of talent, dont have a big man.

Phillies are not having a good offensive year.

they also have the best pitching rotation and most wins in baseball.

7 innings or more.

you just have no clue about pitching and baseball in general.

i bet you havent watched more than one or two games all year. if that

Right, well wins is really an accurate stat for predicting great pitching. I'm sure that means CC SAbathia won the AL Cy Young last year. Oh wait...

Seriously, end of argument. It's not seven innings or more. Never has been seven innings or more. It's six innings, three runs or less, end of story. I can't argue with someone who doesn't understand what they're arguing.

you know what is funny. your little link shows that the phillies have the best pitchers in baseball!!! 19.2 WAR atlanta is second

suck on that!

http://cbssports.custhelp.com/app/an...etail/a_id/226

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/ar...articleid=1623

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quality_start

http://www.sportsmogul.com/baseballcd/help/Glossary.htm

The end.

its hilarous 6 innings and 3 runs would be a below average start for a phillies player.

THen petition someone to change the definition of quality start. Halladay has 16, by the way, which is only one more than Jurjjens and three fewer than Verlander (Verlander stat thrown in for perspective).

oh wow. you won the definition of quality starts.

the rest of the **** you wrote is just, ****.

halladay still has more quality starts. plus he has faced 125 more batters than JJ.

argue that

the end

you even proved that you are wrong

jurrjens has 14.. that is 2 less than halladay.

just fixing your math.

i like how you ignore how many more innings halladay has gone, and how many more batters he's faced.

you are just uninformed.

and shoot, JJ is pitching great, out of his mind.. but there is a reason Halladay is starting the all star game over him.

i was talking about team wins.

you know, the only stat that matters in baseball.


by the way

Halladay - 138 strike outs and 17 walks in 143.1 innings

Jurrjens - 65 strike outs and 25 walks in 110.2 innings


do you really think Jurrjens would win the cy young right now? he would be a close second with Hamels 3rd.

All-Star starter is meaningful stat now? Sheesh.

ANd the argument isn't Jurjjens vs. Halladay, by the way. Shoot, Hamels is probably having the better season than Halladay anyway.

Hamels is close. Halladay is the best pitcher in baseball, and has been for years.


only an idiot would say that a team doesnt have the best rotation and then post a link proving said team does have the best rotation (and according to that link, best overall pitching)

it's not a stat, it's called an honor. an honor given by the manager (Giants manger) to the pitcher he believes is the best on his all star team.

Does anyone here think First Dude has a strong look at HOY?

Door is open for anyone that can make a run as there is no front runner.

^^ :)

marry, bang, cliff:

Hope Solo, Lauren Cheney, The entire team from Sweden

This really has to be a trick question...............................

Halladay has been the best pitcher in baseball and a surefire hall of famer Is he in 2011? I'd say 99 out of 100 managers and GM's would take Verlander based on the two pitchers respective first half work. Halladay is a great pitcher; Verlander has been borderline unhittable this year.

On the "only an idiot" question, I presume that "only an idiot" would take precisely one statistical measurement and try to make an argument over it, particularly when a person is also using the "honor" of All-Star starter of all things to bolster one's argument. Further, "only an idiot" would quote the 19.2 vs. 17.7 PHI-ATL WAR statistic and not realize that team WAR also includes bullpens.

Stick to blindly defending Philadelphia sports rather than objective arguments; clearly the former is your strong point.

Moreover, considering the difference between the respective WAR of PHI vs. ATL is three times less than ATL and the next team in the rankings, even one blindly defending PHI should easily be able to see that there is at least an argument that ATL's staff has been as good as PHI's based on the massive difference between PHI, ATL, and the rest of the National League.

(Incidentally, Verlander's midseason WAR of 5.4 compromises all but .7 of the entire Detroit pitching staff's WAR for 2011, and that includes another pitcher who is also in double digits in wins - shows just how valuable "wins" are as a defining statistic for pitchers...)

i've already said that Atlanta has the best bullpen in all of baseball. nobody is going to say their rotation is better than the Phillies.

you are such a Philly hater (why is that?) that you cant admit when you are wrong about them.

Phillies, hands down, have the best rotation in baseball.

how is it possible, considering the Phillies offense has pretty much sucked all year... and the team has 57 wins and the best record in baseball... while playing in the most difficult division in the National League?

you hate on everything Philly. I'm not a homer because I know our rotation is best, its all there in the facts and stats. Me being a homer would say that the Phillies have a good offense (they dont). Me being a homer would say that I'm not worried about the bullpen missing 3 of their top pitchers (I am). you, not realizing they do have the best rotation in baseball, are a hater.

seriously... you'd take the Braves rotation over the Phils??


I know for a fact I'd take the Braves bullpen over the phillies, even if I think they are over-worked at this point. Phillies have the least used bullpen in the NL... wanna know why? their unbelievable rotation.

I hate this freaking arguement. I've made it a point all year not to boast on the Phillies unbelievable first half because I'm superstitious. But I couldnt resist your stupidity. Now watch Halladay go on the DL, and Hamels have a 3.9 ERA for the rest of the year.

Aunty, more importantly.

Hope Solo :{>::{>::{>:

if they were as good they wouldnt be 1.5 points behind. You can say, that they have been as close to the phils compared to every other team. and you are still a dumbass. I said the link you posted showed it as TEAM PITCHING. it also proved it as a ROTATION... did you notice 3 of the top 7 on that list are Philadelphia starters?? need new glasses?

I'd still take the Giants and / or Rangers rotation over the Braves. I think Jurrjens could be this years Jimenez... great first half, tail off the 2nd half. He has not logged a lot of innings, so it could catch up to him. Hopefully not though, I enjoy good competition.

yes... I'd have to marry Hope Solo.. bang the entire Swedish team, and off the cliff you go Lauren cheney. :D

Hope Solo is stunningly beautiful. womens soccer is much more enjoyable than mens soccer IMO.

I find that calling people lots of names in posts is always the best way to win an argument.

Anywho...

P.S. - why would you say this? Jurjjens in his four ATL years has proven to be a better than average pitcher in three of them, and his second halfs haven't been any worse than his first (not to mention the fact that he's not even near his peak seasons yet). For someone who likes to tell someone else that they don't watch a lot of baseball (as if that is relevant to a sport that plays 162 games and is wholly reliant on statistics), you clearly don't know a whole heck of a lot about the best pitcher on one of your team's biggest rivals.

when it comes to Verlander and Halladay... they have been almost equal for the year.

Verlander: 20 starts; 151 innings ; 147 strikeouts; 31 walks; 2.15 ERA

Halladay: 19 starts; 143.1 innings; 138 strikeouts; 17 walks; 2.45 ERA

pretty equal. While Verlander has a slightly lower ERA, Halladay has a much greater Strikeout to walk ratio. both have been horses. its hard to tell them apart, especially when you look at the last 10 Game log:

Verlander: W L W W W W W W W W

Halladay: W W W W W W W W W W

and those are TEAM wins, not individual win / loss. the only thing that matters is the team winning in the end.

To wit - Jurrjens in 2009 (easily his best season to date - as a 23 year old) pitched 44 innings in the month of September (presumably antitrust's predicted tail-off period), and gave up but seven earned runs in that period. 2010, he was hurt and missed like half the season, so that doesn't count. In 2008, he had two really good starts coming down the stretch, and two really mediocre ones, so we'll call that a wash. In 2007, he didn't even come to the big leagues until mid-August and was 21, so I don't think we can hold that against him either.

In any event, Jurrjens is only 25 and has a freaking 1.87 ERA at the midpoint of the season and a 205 ERA+ (which if it holds, would be the best ERA+ season in baseball by a pitcher not named Martinez or Clemens since Kevin Brown in 1996). I'd say he's going to win the Cy Young if he continues to pitch this way.

Which brings me back to your original statement of:

"btw, so far phillies pitching staff is meeting / exceeding expectations."

To which I replied:

"They are? I'm not even sure their rotation is the best in baseball right now, let alone best of all time as folks were predicting preseason."

And has generated about two pages of you calling me every name you can think of. Meanwhile, the Phillies rotation really are exceeding expectations? Because I heard they were going to have the best rotation EVER. Can you honestly say that the 2011 Philadelphia Phillies have the best rotation in major league baseball history? Because that would be the only real way they could have somehow exceeded their expectations.

Fine, lets make a bet

I say Halladay wins the Cy Young

you think Jurrjens.

$25 if either of us are correct.

if a different pitcher wins the award, no pay out.

and if either pitcher lands on the DL in the 2nd half, bet is void.

put your money where your mouth is.

the expectations were high, and they have exceeded them. unless you want to hold Oswalt blowing his back out against it.

i thought they could be comparable to the braves in the 90's and so far they have. i'll be you will argue that also! they have three of the top 9 pitchers in baseball (top 7 if you use some stats). hard to see where you are coming from, except more Philly hate.

and I can come up with a lot more words than dumbass and idiot. those are just two words that explain your baseball stance pretty well (and sports stance in general)

Come on, team wins, team schmins. Verlander has thrown more innings, has the best WHIP in baseball (by a lot), more strikeouts, more quality starts, better ERA, better ERA+, and has opponents batting 52 points less against him than Halladay at this point in the season.

To tell the truth, there are about four pitchers in the AL (Verlander, Shields, Beckett, Weaver) who would all be frontrunners for NL Cy Young if they were in that league this year.

Deal (though as I said earlier, not sure Halladay is even the Phillies pitcher most likely to win the Cy Young, all things considered)

see this post proves how dumb you are.

he has one more start than halladay.

both pitchers are averaging 7.5 innings per start... so since Verlander has started once more..... see? you just dont understand simple things. they are averaging almost the same exact strikeouts per game. Halladay is averaging less walks.

you might be the only person on earth that believes what you spew.

good.

hopefully neither pitcher ends up on the DL so we can settle this with cash.

and team wins??? thats the only thing that matters in baseball. You want your team to win when your ace is up there. its the only thing that matters to being an ace, and to playing baseball in general.

Yes, it is impressive and meaningful that the Tigers and Phillies are a combined 19-1 in their horses last 10 starts.

its hard for me to believe you looked at those stat lines and saw so much of a difference.

they are almost identical. what halladay lacks in having a 0.30 higher ERA, he makes up with SO to BB ratio of 8.11 compared to Verlander 4.74. SO to BB is a HUGE statistic when it comes to pitching.