You should say pretty much any Euro trained by Aidan O'Brien has been overrated.

Not only is that odd ... but it goes back further than Formulator allows.

I started a thread during your hiatus about how bad O'Brien has been after Viscount Nelson and Master of Hounds lit up the world on Belmont day. He's been really, really bad.

I thought the top older males that year, in no order, were Congaree, Medaglia d'Oro, Perfect Drift, Candy Ride, Pleasantly Perfect, Mineshaft, and Milwaukee Brew. During that course of that season, Mineshaft only faced one of the other six in that group (Perfect Drift) and he lost that race. I think it's fair to say that when a horse runs in the races he ran in during the fall, you can't say they are ducking anyone. At the same time, I think it's also fair to say that he benefitted from the others facing and beating each other on several different occassions and softening their respective resumes and like you, I also felt like the decision not to run in the BC was made after he won the JCGC and the connections felt that they were in the lead for HOY. I felt that they took a gamble that Congaree or Medaglia d'Oro wouldn't win the Classic and maybe take HOY from them and it paid off.

Big deal. He ran in the majority of the big handicap races. More so than the other did. He gave weight to pretty respectable horses - and beat them all but once - always running strong against the clock. That is a very strong collection of handicap horses right there - and the vote for HOY was not close.

Look who Cigar beat in the vast majority of his wins - and Mineshaft was about as fast as Cigar. They both had the same perfect running style and both were very tactical horses.

Other than RandallScott and a few other Thoro-Graph fans - no one overrates Mineshaft.

Yes, that would have been much more accurate.

You consistently sing his praises yet I overrate him? How does that work?

Because, unlike a certain moron, I don't think he was as good as horses like Alysheba, Easy Goer, Sunday Silence, Skip Away, Cigar, Holy Bull, and Ghostzapper.

I've said since 2000....I count nothing GZap did. Is Barry Bonds the best of all time too?...I won't compare him to the others but he is every bit the best I've seen.

Why do you count nothing that Ghostzapper did?

Can you not tell by the analogy he drew?

Common sense.....YYYYYYEEEEEESSSSSSS!!!!!!

Ghostzapper was trained by Bobby Frankel. I thought we was immune from the jucing accusations.

You know, that Dominguez must be a good outfit. Has a horse at Woodbine Friday afternoon.

:tro:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't your longtime signature on this site state that Mineshaft was the best horse since Spectacular Bid?

I'd say that calling him better than Sunday Silence, Easy Goer, Holy Bull, and Skip Away is overrating him a bit.

His career might not be as impressive as those but yes I still believe he was that good. Sorry to disappoint.

You never disappoint...you consistently deliver!!!

People can never get enough Pizza:)

post sharp

Not for you Vic. I want you calling those races well into your 80's.

So does my wife.

2nd or 3rd marriage?

1st and only. Thanks for asking.

Uncle Mo

Proud of you.

Hard to call him overrated - more like just another cripple...errrr internally unfirm horse.

I don't know...he never really beat anything other than a few bad or crippled up horses. Have any of the horses he beat as a juvenile done anything since, other than win a stakes race at Charles Town last week? I doubt he could've beaten Kantharos if that horse stayed sound.

He would have lapped Kantharos.

I love all the people that didn't understand how massively talented Uncle Mo was last year thinking somehow they were right to underrate him because he got sick.

The Uncle Mo of last year would have crushed this year's 3YO crop.

Hypothetically speaking of course

Look BTW everyone knows and respects your handicapping prowess and the work you do...but what makes you think he'd lap Kantharos?

Because Kantharos was slow and Uncle Mo was fast. It does get much simpler than that.

Not everyone...

So there was no chance of Kantharos getting better with the added maturity? He was done racing before Uncle Mo ever went to the post...2yos do improve rapidly with physical development as the year goes on sometimes no? But seriously what do you think Uncle Mo beat as a 2 YO?

Boys at Tosconova was a very solid 2YO and Uncle Mo toyed with him. In any other year he would have been considered a juvenile sensation and early Kentucky Derby favorite.

Uncle Mo was an exceptional 2YO.

Now you are hanging on to there being some possibility that Kantharos would have improved over 10 lengths in a couple of months despite running three straight relatively consistent races. Yes, anything is possible, but based on actual performances, and Kantharos ran as many times as Uncle Mo, it would not have been close.

Doubtful Kantharos would have been one of them. He had the outright best unblinkered 1/4 mile time at OBS March. Those rocketships from the 2yo sales are typically the kind you want to bet early and forget about after a race or two.


Everything he faced - and always very strong against the clock. He's also very tactical for an early speed horse. Boys at Toconvoa, in defeat. ran well enough to win more than a few prior editions of the BC Juvenile - and he was dusted - everything else was totally drowned.

Though - I guess you can say the fellow OBS March 2 furlong freak Aikenite from a year earlier - developed.

Ran as many times yeah...but it was much earlier in his 2YO year plus he was a later foal than Uncle Mo. Obviously it is all hypothetical now but with the added time to mature there's no reason to believe he couldn't improve.

His last race was about a week before Uncle Mo debuted.

You are grasping at straws.