i can assure you that go deputy, relaxed gesture and showing up are all as good as cacique. cacique has no more grade 1 wins than any of the others. the horse with the upside is showing up but i think showing up and cacique will be overbet. go deputy is very dangerous here. i really think go deputy is better than his stablemate english channel right now. i think showing up would have been an easy winner but ramazutti will ensure us of a nice pace.

i have to admit i love turf racing much more than the dirt racing. this is an excellent race.

I don't think Ramazutti setting a solid pace will hurt Showing Up. From what I have seen, he doesn't need the lead. The only time he wired a field was at Arlington.

Anybody know if it is going to rain? A soft turf moves Relaxed Gesture way up.

Actually, Planets Aligned lost eight days ago to Big Prairie and is wheeling back on short rest. He's one of the ones I would probably toss, although like I said, you can make a case for any horse in that race.

Showing Up is another solid 3yo of this season. Everyone seems to agreet aht the 3yo's are better than the older horses this year, so why should this situation be any different??

I am excited to see him take on older horses in this race. I do think he wins with Cacique running a solid second. I also like Relaxed Gesture and Cosmonaut to hit the board.

LMFAO....I think I just peed my pants reading that stuff.....whoa....Oh my...thanks for the laugh Revolution....I needed that.

Cacique should walk over this field and RG becomes a threat with the jock switch to Nak.

1. Cacique
2. Cosmonaut
3. Relaxed Gesutre
4. Showing Up

First 4 separated by 1 3/4 lengths

No rain in the forecast.. Almost definite to be fast and firm.

Holy sh*t I can't stop laughing.....can we keep this guy around??? I love people with a sense of humor that can keep me in stitches....:D :D

If Cacique does lose this race, he surely will have an excuse. Every time he loses its because of something or another. Its never because he wasnt the best horse.

Kev, while I am not really for or against Go Deputy being "better" than English Channel, you can certainly make a case that the two are at least in the same league as far as right now goes. Go Deputy beat Relaxed Gesture as decisively as ENglish Channel beat him last time they ran. Go Deputy looked real good in the Sword Dancer and would have been very tough for any horse to handle that day. I would say the jury is still very much out although English Channel is more accomplished.

The undercard is pretty nice too!

http://www.equibase.com/premium/eqbR...2006&STYLE=EQB

Great Point returns (Race 3 faces Luxembourg, Regent Spirit & Sir Halory), Trueheart, who isn't very good but is a sibling to A.P. Valentine is an AE in the 5th, Rebuttal is in the 1st.

Tim....I could have beat RG by 10 lengths after the headlock Kent D. put him in.

give me a winner in the 2nd today so I can find a good early double.

Tim I don't recall any excuse for him losing any race this year other than the rough trip he got at CD. No excuxse at either Mth or AP and I think this excuse thing is something in your own mind. WHo offered excuses in any race but one? And that race at CD did have a legitimate excuse.

I like Go Deputy alot....hes a very good horse....6-1 on him that day was a GIFT.

Kev- I would try Chantal's horse 'Owns the Place' in the back end of the late double. This horse has the best speed and because of the jockey will get away at an overlay.

Didnt Cacique also have a huge excuse (bad ride, way wide?) in his first race this year out in California when he lost to Milk it Mick? Or am I getting him mixed up with somebody else? Pardon me if I am, I dont have Cacique's PPs in front of me.

And didnt everybody say teh only reason he lost the Million was Tin Man and his crawling pace? Isnt that an excuse?

Tim, thats not an excuse, thats reality.
And I think you often confuse legitimate facts with excuses.
I don't think anyone who said that was saying that it was an excuse. Its just the way it is. I commended the Tin Man and his connections and the race he ran. But you have to admit, when 1:15 went up on the board the race was over, especially since the fillies went in 1:11:3 earlier.
I mean, should we just ignore horses who are stuck behind crawling paces or locked in traffic most of a trip.
I attribute his last loss to a combination of "pilot error" and the fact that he was chasing a damn game and nice horse down the lane.

Yes he was pretty wide on the turn in that race in CA, but since then I really like the way they have been more aggresive with him and riding closer on the lead. His victory on the Belmont Stakes undercard was a very clever ride in my opinion.

Did anyone watch the head on of the Arlington Million break? English Channel got knocked hard by Cacique...that has to be the worst positioning of a gate I've seen.

His victory on the Belmont Stakes undercard was a very clever ride in my opinion.

He wired the field going slow fractions. Yes it was very clever. Relaxed Gesture was far and away the best horse that day, closing tons of ground with Grey Swallow to lose by a head bob, besting English Channel who sat a cozy trip just off Cacique.

The turf was also off and favored deep closers all day long. Sorry guys, that was a win against the bias for which he gets more credit in my opinion.
The other turf races I recall were Contessa's maiden by Point Given coming from last place, as did Gorella running down a horse on a long losse lead(Pommes Frites) who had set slow fractions.

Older American Turf horses = mediocre bunch

Showing Up may be as good as the top bunch and gets weight plus most likely getting better while the others aren't

I like him because he is one of a handful of horses in recent memory that was absolutely rushed to get into the derby but managed not only to survive but improve.

I also love when Tagg wins a big race because I know it pisses off the writers cause they hate him.

It's hard to dismiss Cacique, but I believe that Relaxed Gesture is a serious threat. I will sit and watch this one... can't wait to see how Showing Up does. :cool:

I think if the turf stays firm you can toss Relaxed Gesture, he needs a soft course. If it stays dry it's down to Cacique and Showing Up.

Showing Up will be 2/1, Cacique will be 7/5. Why even bother?

My point, exactly. I'll enjoy watching this race for what it is. It'd be something if the race was upset by a horse like Crown Point. LOL :D

I get a kick when people continuously give out chalk on here. As if we cant find it ourselves.

Yep, either take those odds, figure out a different way to bet around this race, or sit it out.

Its a watch race for me Zippy. Quite honestly the only horse I could take a shot with in here as far as a win bet is Relaxed Gesture, but his price wont be anything to write home about either. He cant be as bad as that last race and Nakatani comes here to ride, which is a huge improvement over Kent D.

Good luck with whomever you bet. I may bet one of the other races tomorrow.

Yeah, I'm on the 'figure out a way to bet around this race' track right now. It's either that or just watch the race. I may make a Grand Slam bet just for kicks and sit out the rest of the wagering.

Here's the PP's on Cacique.

http://www.drf.com/row/pps/cacique.pdf

Here are the PPs for two Belmont races this weekend:


Man O' War:

http://espn.go.com/media/horse/RACE6_060909.pdf


Garden City BC:

http://espn.go.com/media/horse/RACE1_060909.pdf

Gazelle:
1. Teammate
2. Pine Island
3. Bushfire

A horse should not have three grade one wins when their highest figure is a 91. That's ridiculous. Bushfire is the luckiest horse I've ever seen and in the weakest 3yo filly crop I've seen. I think Pine Island is a more talented filly than her but I also think Pine Island needs 10f to do anything. This race is too short for her at only 9f. Teammate might very well have won the Alabama had it been 9f but that last one got her. I think Bushfire also runs better with more activity so I don't expect anything off the bench. So I'll go with Pine Island to beat Bushfire. But then Bushfire has beaten Teammate all three times they've faced each other on a fast track so why should Teammate turn the tables here? Also, I think Teammate is clearly better at two-turns than at one. So this is a complete grabbag of a race. The odds say I have to go with Teammate on top as my bet but I also am going to think she can win here as Bushfire wilts from the challenge up front and Pine Island runs out of ground to catch her.

Garden City:
1. Delmarva
2. Take the Ribbon
3. Maxxi Arte
Delmarva is an intriguing young horse for me. She's got plenty of speed (note that 1:09 4/5 fraction two starts back) but even though she won her last in wire to wire style, she doesn't have to have the lead. She seems that she'll relax and do whatever the rider wants (note how she sat well behind a 1:13 1/5 pace in her second start). I think she should have won two more of her races as she was the best in both and that would make her 4 for 5 with only 3/4 lenghts separating her from perfection and a much shorter price here. She's seemingly improved in each start, ran well in her only start here, and if there happens to be any give in the ground, I don't think it will bother her. Take the Ribbon has run pretty well on multiple tracks and I like that in a young horse. She was taken down in the last race but Dollase is confident that the race didn't take too much out of her and so he's running right back AND shipping across country to do it. That's a good sign. Her 97 two back is the highest in the field and the 95 in the last is only equalled by one other horse. That's also a good sign. I mentioned that the 95 has only been equalled by one horse. That is Maxxi Arte. She got that in her last race with a wire to wire win at Del Mar. Cassidy is also shipping across country and I always like that. She's similar to Delmarva in that she has the speed to run a 1:09 and change and the tractability to sit behind a 1:13.


Man o'War:
1. Cacique
2. Relaxed Gesture
3. Showing Up

hard to agree with that. go deputy might be better right now and showing up could turn out to be a superstar. wide open race. cacique is no better than showing up or go deputy.

I agree King Glorious. Both on liking Teammate tomorrow and for thinking this year's 3yo fillies ar a mighty weak group. If Bushfire is teh leader of this division and Pine Island is the only other one who could"eclipse" her, than you know its weak.

Rev, not sure what you mean. I agree that you could argue that Go Deputy is as good right now as ENg Channel. And in no way do I like Cacique as my top choice or would I bet him. I just think hes a better bet than Showing Up.

Tomorrow is the day to bet Relaxed Gesture. When everyone gets off, you get on. 5-1 is not impossible in the least. Cacique always takes a ton of money. That's where I'll be.

I agree Randall. These are the types who take turns and tomorrow its RG's turn. Showing Up has never beaten a real good horse. Cacique has a knack of running 2nd. Go Deputy just got his win. Crown Point is a billygoat. Who else is there?

i was arguing with your statement that if cacique loses he will have an excuse. i think he could get a perfect trip and lose to showing up or go deputy. they both could just be better horses. showing up and go deputy are clearly running on all cylinders right now. go deputy looks to be over all his health issues and he just won a grade 1 and won the bowling green right before that.

Tim, you are right, and I had Go Deputy last time to complete the Pick4 and didn't like Relaxed that day, but I think the horse is significantly better at Belmont than Saratoga. Plus Kent's ride last time defies words. Maybe the worst ride he's ever given, save for his abortion on Sweetsaint in the Derby.

Rev- I was being very tongue in cheek. Every time this horse loses its someone going to slow, him getting a bad ride, blah blah blah. He wires a field going easy fractions on Bel Day and hes a superstar. I'm not buying it.

This group of older turf horses is pretty good but they are turn takers. You cant make an argument that any one of them is that much better than the rest.

i could not agree more. the older american turf horses are nice horses that just keep beating each other. it would be nice if showing up or after market became a star. america needs a great turf horse.

Really? I think she hates one-turn 8f+ races at Belmont. She didn't run well there this summer, but rebounded to her spring form at Saratoga (2 turns).