Yeah, but there's multiple things that can cause those same signs, some serious, some not. For example, in humans, diarrhea could be caused by: Buffalo wing overdose. Or lymphosarcoma. Or .... ;)

Who's bad record the Hall of Fame bound trainer, or the owner who started claiming learned the game from the ground up albeit with a new Bankroll and has one a BC race in like his 5 years owning horses?

Who cares if they arent being truthful?

You're jumping to conclusions. I only said that, put alongside the Devil May Care episode, the mystery Uncle Mo illness is starting off in a similar fashion. Hence, for some, all the questioning of the "fullness" of the connections' reports on the horse.

I'm only going off DRF and Blood-Horse reports, so if you have some juicy inside info to dish, I guess your posts on the matter are much more informed then mine.

No. Does everyone exposed to asbestos get mesothelioma?

What possible condition could he be covering up? Why would anyone care if one particular ailment was bothering the horse versus another? As I have tried to express many times, this is not an exact science. Look at Rags to Riches. Her exercise rider kept saying that she didnt feel right. Pletcher sent her off to the best clinics in the world for complete examination's which didn't come up with much. Then a few weeks later she comes up with a broken pastern. The best hospitals and doctors in the world knew something was wrong with an ultra valuable mare and still couldnt find it. Maybe if the equine version of House was available?

I think wht MaWhip is attemting to say is where there is smoke there is fire and Pletcher seems FOS covering up something that is up.. My point is who cares, the horse is finished and if they want to ease into the he has done enough speach whatever..

As for Rags to Riches shirley you arent suggesting that the vets missed a busted pastern?

Who is more likely to race again?

Uncle Mo or boys at Toscanova?

They absolutely missed it

Good prop bet. I'd say Boys at Tos is more likely to run because he is worth about .50 cents as a stallion.

No, a busted pastern is impossible to miss. They were looking hard for some instability or defect, yet couldn't find one. Yet that instability was real, it lead to the busted pastern. The top lameness gurus are sharp. They can see amazing things via imaging (ultrasound, MRI, even ordinary rads) but they can't always see everything, even if they are looking for it.

Uncle Mo wasn't doing well. The routine tests were done. They showed some mild non-specific abnormalities. So the specific tests were done. Nothing worse was shown. The mild abnormality was treated. Treatment done. Problem still there. Time to look again. This isn't rocket science, it's just medicine.

Speaking of lameness gurus - or surgeons who deserve the title - on a good note, look at Battle of Hastings (who was injured near the finish). This wasn't treatable 30 years ago like it is today. http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-raci...-after-surgery

But here's Archarcharch, who had essentially the same basic injury as BOH, but was injured at the start, and ran the entire Derby on a fracture. So he ended up with more problems, and is retired. Both horses had same competent vet. http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-raci...red-owner-says

They missed a completely busted pastern? Gotcha

Don't ever talk about Freddy that way.

Freddy is the King of Lame.

Lame? I am always properly medicated

Let me explain this to you one more time.

Rider says horse is not right
Horse sent to clinic
Horse given clean bill of health
Horse returns to training
Rider says horse still doesn't feel right
Horse sent to different clinic
Clinic can't find anything
Horse sent back into training
Horse runs sub par race
Horse exits race with broken pastern

You don't have to know anything about anything to see what happened here.

I had a filly with a decent pedigree at Tampa a few years back that wasn't training up to par. No heat, no swelling. Xrays and ultrasound showed nothing. Sent her to the clinic in Ocala for a nuclear scan and zero x rays. They pretty much came up with nothing. Gave her a little time (the supposed magic trick). Brought her back toward the end of the meet to run her one more time to see if we could break her maiden and send her to the shed. She ran her typical race and got beat a nose. Came out of the race with a fractured fetlock.

Do you think that injury was random or wasn't what was bothering her initially?

There is a tremendous amount of guess work done with horses in training even with million dollar horses.

Why couldnt it have been a completely random event, being that she was vetted so agressively it is more explainable that it was a random event.
Next time instead of wasting all that money on tests that tell you nothing ship the horse to juan carlos he will hook you right up!

BTW did you rea Dr Riots post above..A busted pastern is IMPOSSIBLE to MISS

If you are going to cherry pick that line, you should read her next few sentences where she basically agree's with Chuck.

On one knee and a freshly shaved face, Juan would have diagnosed the probem in minutes..and have a painfree solution to race too..

It is an absolute statement and speaks to fact that Rags did not have a busted pastern as Chuck seems to believe.. BECAUSE ITS AN IMPOSSIBLE THING TO MISS..

Geeshus ... Chuck's point is absolutely right, they missed whatever she had. I doubt it was a fracture line, because, yep, that's pretty impossible to miss, but as Chuck said, she obviously had something going on, which was completely missed, and resulted in a fractured pastern during the race.

Dr. Riot are you milk or meat? In your prfessional opinion as an expert, is it likely that Rags to Riches had "a busted pastern" as suggested by Chuck, when she went thru a complete battery of testing?

I'll answer for her since she already answered this exact question.

"No, a busted pastern is impossible to miss. They were looking hard for some instability or defect, yet couldn't find one. Yet that instability was real, it lead to the busted pastern."

Gotcha just wanted to debunk Chuck's comical representation that a horse had a "Busted Pastern" and everyone missed it..

You see here is the issue..You bold something which is completely subjective.. Nobody knows for sure if Rags took a bad step and bustd something or if there was some issue that some ex rider thought he or she was feeling. What we know is that the filly did not have a busted pastern and the rest is all conjecture..CORRECT? There is fact and there is assumption assuming Rags had a busted pastern is pure BS

are you sure you are on your meds?

Sure it could be a random event. Probably about a 1% chance of that.

How do you debunk the truth?

Unwittingly you make my point for me. That is that until something is painfully obvious it is mostly conjecture.

No what we know was that there was an unresolved issue and that ultimately there was a fractured pastern. Why anyone would think that this wasn't the issue all along and was simply not detected is beyond me. You don't have to be a genius to connect the dots.

No, but you do have to have the ability to question the official line.

D

I guess you didnt read or have a hard time accepting Dr. Riot's post that it is impossible for a horse to have as you described a "busted Pastern" and have it not be detected..

Feel free to explain to Dr.Riot how she is completely wrong about this, This should be a good one

I love you but your killing me.. A magical busted bone that mordern technology couldnt identify but an ex rider could. You buy this at the same store Jack bought his beans.. Haven't you ever heard of an athlete with a strained leg hurt another part of their body because they were favoring the minor injury? sounds way more plausible then the impossible?

any other Bubbameisers you believe in?

Technology is not infallible. Far from it.

Neither are behind the scene BS stories that are based on hear say and second party information.

Well, yeah, however, it would seem readily apparent that the rider was on the right side of things.

Why because the end result justify his/her story?

Yes.

You don't view that as compelling evidence?

Absolutely not ..I veiw it as people reverse engineering BS.

So you believe the other mystery injury that they also apparently missed caused the actual injury?

There is also no evidence that the Easter Bunny or Santa Clause don't exist so it is plausible that they actually do?

Why do you think this is hear say or second party information?

Do you seriously think that I actually took the time to make this up? LOL

Freddy is out of his mind. I like the whole "well Dr. Riot says" thing when "Dr Riot" agreed with Chuck from the start.