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-   -   All time best horses (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40800)

Dahoss 02-04-2011 06:13 PM
I wonder if Minishaft made the list.

Indian Charlie 02-04-2011 06:15 PM
I'm really surprised anyone even responded to that list.

It was lame beyond anything even RHTPG1985 could have done.

Cannon Shell 02-04-2011 06:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS (Post 748985)
The horse he has rated #7 that was foaled in 1715 - that horse didn't debut until age 6 - only ran six times in his career - and half of his six wins came by walkover.

That list is actually a pretty clever troll job in my opinion.
Very tough crop in 1715

Coach Pants 02-04-2011 06:35 PM
Did Buffy have a horse?

DaTruth 02-04-2011 07:03 PM
The ancient horses get extra credit because they raced at longer distances. As great as Secretariat was, he was unproven at four miles.

somerfrost 02-04-2011 07:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dahoss (Post 748981)
And Point Given is where on the list? I won't give you a hard time about Zenyatta being 11, because I think even you know how silly it is.
I have Point Given at #48

somerfrost 02-04-2011 07:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dahoss (Post 748991)
I wonder if Minishaft made the list.
No

somerfrost 02-04-2011 07:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS (Post 748972)
You'd have a better shot of defending Ted Bundy than that list.
I can defend the list pretty easily, whether you choose to accept my positions is another matter. As I stated in my original post...ranking horses is a subjective venture whether for HOY or all time.

AeWingnut 02-04-2011 07:30 PM
for a $2 win bet
 
1. Power to Geaux paid $2,922 for a $2 win bet
2. Wishing Ring paid $1,885.50
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14,100,427,020,880 Zenyatta paid $7 in the '09 Classic around the same amount she paid in her debut

Cannon Shell 02-04-2011 07:34 PM
Is it possible to get 21-100?

Dahoss 02-04-2011 07:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by somerfrost (Post 749003)
I have Point Given at #48
What is the basis for Point Given being so much lower on the list than Holy Bull?

hoovesupsideyourhead 02-04-2011 07:36 PM
onion # 72

Cannon Shell 02-04-2011 07:37 PM
I've got Joe the Dude at 115 with a bullet

hoovesupsideyourhead 02-04-2011 07:47 PM
who is the best fla bred, ny bred, pa bred ..

AeWingnut 02-04-2011 07:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoovesupsideyourhead (Post 749022)
who is the best fla bred, ny bred, pa bred ..
Silver Charm
Funny Cide tied with Zippy Chippy
Storm Cat

Bucks Boy best Illinois bred?

I have no idea
but it is easy to criticize my list ;)

AeWingnut 02-04-2011 07:57 PM
best Maryland bred

Cigar?

Dahoss 02-04-2011 07:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoovesupsideyourhead (Post 749022)
who is the best fla bred, ny bred, pa bred ..
Florida- Dr Fager
NY- Komodo
PA- Go For Wand

Cannon Shell 02-04-2011 08:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AeWingnut (Post 749025)
Silver Charm
Funny Cide tied with Zippy Chippy
Storm Cat

Bucks Boy best Illinois bred?

I have no idea
but it is easy to criticize my list ;)
I would have to rank Skip Away over Silver Charm
Smarty Jones was a better racehorse than Storm Cat
Bucks Boy maybe the best IL bred

RockHardTen1985 02-04-2011 08:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Antitrust32 (Post 748953)
I just hope you didnt spend too much effort on this this list.

Zenyatta at 11 basically defends all opinions.

She is the only horse on that list born after 1976, yet you could probably make a list of 100 horses since then 1976 that were better than her. Including Blame, who just beat her a couple months ago.

Zenyatta is better than Easy Goer? Cigar? Ghostzapper? Point Given?

How about just the females since 1976. Go For Wand and Open Mind would have eaten her for lunch. Lady's Secret, Princess Rooney, Winning Colors, Genuine Risk, Silverbulletday, Life's Magic, Heavenly Prize, Serena's Song, Personal Ensign, Bayakoa, Paseana, Inside Information, Azeri....


I wont include Rachel for obvious reasons but the female horses I listed above were just as good or better than Zenyatta since 1976.

Now just think if I listed male horses.
I have a really hard time ranking Z and Im one of her biggest fans, literally biggest. Just talking recent horses, Im not sure Z could have beat Point Given, Bernardini, Ghostzapper, Candy Ride, Congaree, Eskendereya and even Comentator when he was really good.

Cannon Shell 02-04-2011 08:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dahoss (Post 749028)
Florida- Dr Fager
NY- Komodo
PA- Go For Wand
I guess I would now rank Dr Fager over Skip Away

Indian Charlie 02-04-2011 08:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoovesupsideyourhead (Post 749022)
who is the best fla bred, ny bred, pa bred ..
Neil Drysdale had a PA bred back in the mid 80s that was truly outstanding.

His name was Electric Blue, and he only raced three times. He had two wins and a second in that awesome rendition of the Hollywood Futurity won by Snow Chief.

That horse had bigtime potential.

Cannon Shell 02-04-2011 08:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985 (Post 749031)
I have a really hard time ranking Z and Im one of her biggest fans, literally biggest. Just talking recent horses, Im not sure Z could have beat Point Given, Bernardini, Ghostzapper, Candy Ride, Congaree, Eskendereya and even Comentator when he was really good.
She may have handled Eskendereya and I have him ranked 426th. At their best she doesnt get close to any of the others.

Indian Charlie 02-04-2011 08:07 PM
Oklahoma would be Lady's Secret.

Virginia would be Secretariat.

Washington, that could be Chinook Pass. or less probably, Delicate Vine.

California, probably most would say Swaps, but I'm partial to someone else.

Michigan, Badwagon Harry.

NJ, Open Mind.

Indian Charlie 02-04-2011 08:12 PM
I would rank Native Dancer greater than Cigar, but I can see how a case could be made for Cigar. For Maryland breds that is.

AeWingnut 02-04-2011 08:33 PM
off the top of my head
zero thought
wait...

but yeah , I agree

Skip Away best Fl bred

The Indomitable DrugS 02-04-2011 08:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Indian Charlie (Post 749036)
Oklahoma would be Lady's Secret.
.....

The day the love for Dixie Doodle finally stopped.

Indian Charlie 02-04-2011 08:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS (Post 749053)
.....

The day the love for Dixie Doodle finally stopped.
I'm going by old British rules, geldings cannot run in G1s.

DaTruth 02-04-2011 09:05 PM
The best Texas-bred would be Assault, but in more modern times it is probably Groovy.

Rudeboyelvis 02-04-2011 09:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985 (Post 749031)
I have a really hard time ranking Z and Im one of her biggest fans, literally biggest.
Oh
My
God


You realize what you literally just said here, right? Literally?


Sorry mersa, new sig line.

DaTruth 02-04-2011 09:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Indian Charlie (Post 749036)

Michigan, Badwagon Harry.
Thumbsucker was also a good Michigan-bred.

RockHardTen1985 02-04-2011 09:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis (Post 749061)
Oh
My
God


You realize what you literally just said here, right? Literally?


Sorry mersa, new sig line.
??

King Glorious 02-05-2011 02:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cannon Shell (Post 749015)
Is it possible to get 21-100?
I'd like that list to come out the day after my mom dies. I'll need a good pick me up. This is one of the best threads ever. Thanks Somerfrost.

AeWingnut 02-05-2011 08:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis (Post 749061)
Oh
My
God


You realize what you literally just said here, right? Literally?


Sorry mersa, new sig line.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985 (Post 749064)
??
Do you weigh 500 lbs plus?

Bigsmc 02-05-2011 09:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaTruth (Post 749062)
Thumbsucker was also a good Michigan-bred.
Tenpins.

somerfrost 02-06-2011 03:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dahoss (Post 749016)
What is the basis for Point Given being so much lower on the list than Holy Bull?
Point Given 13/9-3-0 only missed the board once, that in his mysterious effort in the Derby, he was favored to win the TC and most folks believe he was far and away the best that year. Holy Bull 16/13-0-0 was hell on wheels when he got the lead but failed to hit the board 3 times. Point Given's wins in the Preakness, Belmont and Travers put him in rarified air. Holy Bull prevailed in the Travers, Fla Derby and Blue Grass but overall, won less premier races. Holy Bull's 12th in the Derby resulted in him passing the final 2 legs of the TC. His one off the board finish resulted from injury in his final race so can't hold that against him. unfortunate that he couldn't continue his 4yo season, may have been ranked higher with an impressive finish to his career.

DaTruth 02-06-2011 03:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by somerfrost (Post 749637)
Point Given 13/9-3-0 only missed the board once, that in his mysterious effort in the Derby, he was favored to win the TC and most folks believe he was far and away the best that year. Holy Bull 16/13-0-0 was hell on wheels when he got the lead but failed to hit the board 3 times. Point Given's wins in the Preakness, Belmont and Travers put him in rarified air. Holy Bull prevailed in the Travers, Fla Derby and Blue Grass but overall, won less premier races. Holy Bull's 12th in the Derby resulted in him passing the final 2 legs of the TC. His one off the board finish resulted from injury in his final race so can't hold that against him. unfortunate that he couldn't continue his 4yo season, may have been ranked higher with an impressive finish to his career.
Holy Bull easily beat Bertrando, Devil His Due, Colonial Affair, and Go For Gin in the Woodward. That trumps anything Point Given did.

Dahoss 02-06-2011 04:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by somerfrost (Post 749637)
Point Given 13/9-3-0 only missed the board once, that in his mysterious effort in the Derby, he was favored to win the TC and most folks believe he was far and away the best that year. Holy Bull 16/13-0-0 was hell on wheels when he got the lead but failed to hit the board 3 times. Point Given's wins in the Preakness, Belmont and Travers put him in rarified air. Holy Bull prevailed in the Travers, Fla Derby and Blue Grass but overall, won less premier races. Holy Bull's 12th in the Derby resulted in him passing the final 2 legs of the TC. His one off the board finish resulted from injury in his final race so can't hold that against him. unfortunate that he couldn't continue his 4yo season, may have been ranked higher with an impressive finish to his career.
Holy Bull won less premier races? He won the Met Mile and Woodward as a 3 year old beating very solid older horses. Point Given never beat older horses. The only real loss you can put on Holy Bull was in the Derby when he never lifted a hoof. He was injured in his final career start in the Donn and flipped his palate in the Fountain of Youth.

You gotta be kidding with this stuff.

RockHardTen1985 02-06-2011 04:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by somerfrost (Post 749637)
Point Given 13/9-3-0 only missed the board once, that in his mysterious effort in the Derby, he was favored to win the TC and most folks believe he was far and away the best that year. Holy Bull 16/13-0-0 was hell on wheels when he got the lead but failed to hit the board 3 times. Point Given's wins in the Preakness, Belmont and Travers put him in rarified air. Holy Bull prevailed in the Travers, Fla Derby and Blue Grass but overall, won less premier races. Holy Bull's 12th in the Derby resulted in him passing the final 2 legs of the TC. His one off the board finish resulted from injury in his final race so can't hold that against him. unfortunate that he couldn't continue his 4yo season, may have been ranked higher with an impressive finish to his career.
It was not really a mystery. Stevens fu#ked it all up.

somerfrost 02-07-2011 02:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985 (Post 749666)
It was not really a mystery. Stevens fu#ked it all up.
I was being kind! Agree that jock had horse way to close to blistering pace.

RockHardTen1985 02-07-2011 02:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by somerfrost (Post 749907)
I was being kind! Agree that jock had horse way to close to blistering pace.
Its really a shame, because of all the close ones I think he was most deserving. He won The Preakness for fun and destroyed the Belmont.


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