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The thing is that "The Bid" should have won the Belmont at 1 1/2 miles.
The morning of the race there was a mishap where the colt stepped on a pin. There was talk of scratching him for the race. That combined with a very "green ride" by a very young Ronnie Franklin.... |
I think if you rated the most outstanding Saratoga 3-year-old seasons of all time - General Assembley would be right up there.
 He went 7fs in 1:21 flat in his first start at the meet as a 3yo - he won the Travers by 15 lengths over an off track in his other start that meet. The Beyer was 134 for that race according to Beyer's book 'The Winning Horseplayer' A horse named Smarten - who entered the Travers on a six race win streak (all at the stakes level) was 2nd.  The 3rd place finisher in that Travers was Private Account - beaten a mere 26 lengths.  Private Account was a multiple Grade 1 winner as a race horse - but was better as a sire. He's the sire of the legendary Personal Ensign as well as the great Inside Information. Champion filly Davona Dale was 4th beaten 28.75 lengths in the field of 7. General Assembly only ran twice more after that - he was drubbed by The Bid and than cut back to win the Vosburgh in his final start. He faced Spectacular Bid six times .. and he lost all 6 matchups - never once getting closer than 2.75 lengths. He was 2nd in the Kentucky Derby. The Travers certainly would have been the day for him. He still holds the track record for 10 furlongs at Saratoga today. |
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I'd love to know who was favored over him in the Champagne off that ridiculous Atlantic City win. |
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I can still remember when he showed up in the Champagne. Those were the days before speed figures were prevalent, and he showed up off that insane win at Atlantic City in the World's Playground, but was meeting General Assembly. I was shocked when he paid as little as 2:1, but in retrospect, I bet he had overwhelming Sheet numbers. |
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Once again....these horses all ran before horses bounced. |
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Davona Dale was a week off losing the Alabama to It's in the Air ( Veitch just couldn't beat Laz Barrera...though she got revenge in the Ballerina the following year ). I believe Smarten compiled his winning streak shipping around the country for softer spots. |
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Watch the Marlboro. |
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Smarten was a very underrated race horse, and turned out to be a pretty fantastic sire.
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I have always thought he was top 5. Traveling all over and setting record after record at different distances, much of the time under Ronnie Franklin. WOW
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Drugs - I know you made the cutoff 1970, but do you have PPs for Dr. Fager? It was before my time, but I always thought that Dr. Fager had the best 4yo season ever in 1968.
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General Assembly was the 7:5 favorite in the Champagne.
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I have PP's for horses like Dr. Fager, Citation and Native Dancer - but I don't have any way to gauge horses like that. I don't have access to chart books or results charts from that time - have no idea what their Ragozin figures look like - what their Beyers might look like - I don't have PP's of the competition they faced... so I feel totally in the dark about those horses. I'm sure Dr. Fager was an all-time great - but it gets tricky to even guess without the aid of a lot of stuff. Look at the Seattle Slew defeat to Exceller above - after watching that performance you'd think Seattle Slew was the greatest. However, I happen to think Seattle Slew might have only been the 5th or 6th best 3-year-old of the 70's. I've seen a lot of stuff that supports that belief. He did however run some truly awesome races at age 4...albeit his 4yo season is hardly the stuff of legend in terms of accomplishment... unlike his 2yo and 3yo season. |
Fifth or sixth best 3yo - not disagreeing or agreeing, just curious who would be in that top five or six?
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The quote on the first page about Bid's 4yo year being the best since Tom Fool is what made me think of Dr. Fager. I realize it's difficult to compare different eras and it's splitting hairs when comparing top 5 all time, but Dr. Fager sometimes get forgotten because he didn't run the triple crown races. I couldn't find PPs but here his is 4yo year when he won Champion Sprint Horse, Co-champion Turf Horse, Champion Older Male and Horse of the Year: Won the 7F Roseben @ Belmont carrying 130 and was 1/5 off track record Won the 8.5F Californian @ Hollywood carrying 130 over Gamely Won the 10F Suburban @ Belmont carrying 132 giving 2 pounds to Damascus equaling the track record 2nd in the 10F Brooklyn @ Aqueduct carrying 135 giving 5 pounds to Damascus who used a rabbit to win Won the 9F Whitney @ Saratoga by 8 carrying 132 giving 18 pounds to the field Won the 8F Washington Park @ Arlington carrying 134 and set the world record in 132 1/5. He ran the 2nd quarter in 20 3/5 Won the 9.5F United Nations @ Monmouth in his only turf start carrying 134 and giving 16 pounds to grass champion Fort Marcy Won the 7F Vosburgh @ Aqueduct carrying 139! after Nerud supposedly asked for 145 and broke the track record by a full second |
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Slew wasn't a fast horse on anyone's numbers and he ran against what really looked like very weak competition in the triple crown series. Slew's Ragozin figs going into his final 3 Derby preps were 7.25, 7.25, and 10. He won the KY Derby with a 7 - only one horse has since won the KY Derby with a Rag sheet number as slow or slower - that was Sea Hero - who also ran a 7. It wasn't just Ragozin - Beyer talked how weak Slew was on his figures as a 3yo in his book 'My $50,000 Year At The Races' - and how overrated he thought he was. Obviously - Slew's Derby win was easily one of the most impressive visually I've ever seen. It was awesome considering the big early trouble he had - but when you learn it was as slow as Sea Hero's .. that sure takes the sparkle off of it. Run Dusty Run was 2nd to him in the Derby and Belmont and 3rd in the Preakness - Iron Constitution was 2nd to him in the Preakness. These two aren't beasts. * Derby and Belmont 2nd place finishers 3yo season:  * Preakness 2nd place finisher  After the Belmont - Slew went out to Hollywood Park for his next start and tanked against 3yo's in a non-effort. He didn't run again that season. I realize he won the triple crown - Real Quiet came within a nose and arguably a smarter ride of doing so - Charismatic came close - and obviously no one considers them a better 3yo than a horse like Holy Bull. I thought Alydar was clearly better at 3. |
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He was sensationally fast on the Ragozin's at both age 3 and age 4 and through all parts of those two seasons. From '70 to '99 - only Secretariat (0.75) ran a faster Kentucky Derby number than Bid (1.75) From '70 to '99 - Spend a Buck was the only Derby winner to ever run a faster number than Bid in a Derby prep race. As a 4-year-old - Bid ran the fastest rag sheet number ever - and it was not broken until Congaree's first Cigar Mile win more than 20 years later. |
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this is how you know a horse is a great one. you don't have to argue, discuss, or convince.
the only debate is where in the top five all time this horse should be residing. he and secretariat, citation and the immortal, original big red are the top four. there's a reason why, 90 years after he retired, people still mention man o war. i'm just lucky that i got to see a horse the likes of which we may never see again. the 70's was a time of riches for this sport. |
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And this is how I found that out! http://tinyurl.com/32dwq4d |
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I don't know about 1978 ( the Bid's win ), but The Young America was inaugurated in 1977 with as purse of $144,500 |
Found it - $137,500 - thanks. Had to settle a bet.
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I used Brisnet. |
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The Young America was like Bid's letdown race .. oddly, his best race as a 2yo came nine days later in the Gr 1 LRL Futurity.
He destroyed General Assembly by 8.5 lengths in track record time. Clever Trick (who won 18 of 29 career starts - and sired Phone Trick - sire of 2yo horse of the year Favorite Trick and champion 2yo filly Phone Chatter) was 3rd beaten 20+ lengths.  It was one of the fastest races ever run by a 2-year-old .. and it marked The Bid's 3rd Grade 1 stakes win in a span of just 20 days. Imagine today if a 2-year-old won 3 Grade 1's in a span of just 20 days. |
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but back to Spectacular Bid I think if you add up all of his payoffs Mine That Bird did more for the bettor :rolleyes: |
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How you get sprinter/miler out of Bold Bidder/Promised Land is beyond me. Bold Bidder won 3 major stakes races at 10f - Charles H. Strub (NTR), Monmouth H, and Hawthorne Gold Cup - to go with his mile wins (Jerome H and Washington Park H). Promised Land's biggest wins were the Pimlico Special (at 3, 1 3/16 in the fall), the Lawrence Realization (the New York St. Leger, at 1 5/8 miles), and the San Juan Capistrano (1 3/4 miles); he is a strong influence for stamina. Yes, Bid's dam's only stakes placing was in a 6f race (in which she lost to Flying Paster's dam Procne), but that didn't mean sprinting ability was all she inherited. Moreover, Bid was inbred 3 x 3 to To Market, a multiple major SW at 10f and a son of Jockey Club Gold Cup winner Market Wise. It is interesting that Bid's second dam was a twin; she was Stop on Red and her twin sister was Go on Green. GoG ran 32 times and won 7, while SoR ran 51 times and also won 7 times. By the way, Bid's sons at stud in Australia/NZ did well enough to still be showing up in pedigrees of top horses. Bite the Bullet sired multiple G1 winner Sniper's Bullet (a 7yo still running), Spectacular Spy and Spectacular Love sired G1 winners, and Spectacularphantom is damsire of current Kiwi star Katie Lee. |
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