That's it, no worries, I'm sure you will have no trouble picking/finding a fight at PA.

The board you got banned from? Seems like you seem to find fights where you go also.

I'm not picking a fight. I'm explaining to you why people often misunderstand you. It's because you pretend you are smart and it comes off very confusing.

Instead of addressing what is said you change the goalposts in some sort of "gotcha" game that you always lose. It's pretty amusing actually.

Enjoyed the article … but don't buy his high opinion of RA

Thought she was overrated last year … and her disappointing 2010 campaign helped to prove that.

Lol.

Lmao.

Lmfao.

Lmfaoaso.

Soiafr!

I continue to vehemently disagree with this statement of yours: "she will get more respect out of finishing second than winning the race." However, I think you have recognized the ridiculousness of that statement and (in your way) sort of retracted it so we'll let that go.

That has nothing to do with the rest of the discussion you are trying to have. As I've already said about 50 times, I do think more of Zenyatta after the race than I did going into the race. So, in that way the analogy to Slew in the JCGC certainly works.

However, I think it is probably important to note that in that race the dynamics of the race worked AGAINST Slew, and he still turned in that performance. That is why his reputation grew even in defeat. In the case of the recent BCC, the race set up IN FAVOR of Zenyatta. So I certainly do not think her performance was anywhere close to what Slew did in '78.

That being said, if you told me before the race that the pace was going to be what it was and that the race would have totally melted down the way it did, I would have predicted that Zito's and Baffert's 3yo colts would have finished in front of Zenyatta. That's why I wagered on LaL. Zenyatta flew by both of them down the stretch, and nearly got to Blame too, so because of that, I think she's better now than I did before the race. But that doesn't mean that she did what Slew did or (even more preposterously) that she would deserve or get less credit if she had won.

I too thought about pointing out the race shape of the Slew race vs the race shape of the BCC, but I concluded that it would be pointless, as he'd be unwilling to try to understand the difference between the two races.

Yes, I am extremely proud of not bending over to PaceAdvantage over there. What's your excuse for still being over there. Ummm...I wonder, check the colour of you nose. :)

I disagree whether she won by a nose or lost by a nose, in the context of doubt whether she can handle dirt. A win or loss is not going a huge swing in sentiment with critics and fans alike. The question has been answered. Obcourse a win is better record wise, that is obvious. But I think you would agree that was not the main question we were waiting for the last 3 years.

I thought it was a very fair article by My Beyer and was on point. I like Zenyatta. That's it.

It rained today, therefore it rained last week, too.

Start with Aristotle and tell me when you get to David Hume.

Another wrong take on something. Keep them coming.

Speaking of wrong takes Dahoss, what is your take on your 2 horses you touted wholeheartedly this year, Quality Road and Rachel? What type of excuses can you make for them today...Not a great year for you was it?

I know I would be speechless also.

Shocking...a deflection and another wrong take. I've given my opinion on Rachel many times. You know this. Wholeheartedly touted them? That's stupid even for you. Quality Road is a good horse. He's a lot better than his race on Saturday. Rachel is a good horse also. Weird, when she gets beat a head she's awful, but when Zenyatta does she is Seattle Slew. How's that work?

But what does that have to do with anything? I liked Blame in the Classic. I bet Blame in the Classic and Quality Road wasn't on any of my tickets.

Just sayin'

The difference is that Seattle Slews valiant loss came after he had been an undefeated TC winner and overcame terrible management to win several truly great races. Zenyatta's is basically the measure of her greatness.

I love your playbook of replies Hossy, I've seen this movie for a year now with your play pals at PA, Shocking, deflection, even stupid for you...ect...you forgot delusional, another of your other favs. If you want to elicit a response, try something fresh man.

2nd to Zardana, Persistantly is not something to brag about when you are Rachel, is it? Her 2nd to UB does make her look abit better today, but let's face, you and I know you were way off the boat when you overrated these 2 earlier this year, just as you did for Rail Trip, another mistake by you, and though you hate to admit it, and throw up your standard answers of deflection, your opinion was dreadfully wrong about them all. We both know this, but keep trying. I know you like to say you always get the last laugh, but this laugh will always be on you. You know and I know it.

Amen.

It's all about opportunity and need. In other parts of the world, there has always been a huge disparity between the purses of male and female races so once a female showed she was good enough to try it, it made sense to run her against the boys because the purses just weren't worth it in female races. Over the years as female purses have improved, the mentality has stayed the same. They understand what Americans don't seem to and that is that if given the chance, girls can compete. Here, while the purses aren't equal, they are big enough for the girls to keep them in their own division. You'll get the occassional attempt but then it's usually followed by a return to their own sex. If Zenyatta were trained anywhere else, once she won the Classic, she would have basically stayed in open competition. As others have said, I agree that the reason you haven't seen it more is because of lack of opportunity and not because of a lack of ability.

Just as an aside, after the race I was even more pissed at Zenyatta's connections than before. I really feel cheated because they deprived us of seeing some really great things. She could have run away and hid in the SA Hcp, Hollywood Gold Cup, and Pacific Classic. She could have come east and done some things. Instead, they stayed ultra conservative. I think that had they won some of those other big races, they'd have built up some credits and could withstand a loss in the Classic, sort of like Curlin in 2008 and Cigar in 1996. But by playing it the way they did, they left themselves no room for error and even though many walked away thinking Zenyatta ran the better race, she still lost and that should end any arguments for her to be HOY. To me, it's either Blame or Goldikova.

I've always said that in a hypothetical race between Rachel and Zenyatta, if the distance was 9F and it was a race only open to fillies and mares that Rachel would have the edge because "average" Grade 1 fillies and mares typically would not have enough quality to keep her honest on the lead.

However, if they met at 9F in a race open to Grade 1 males also, I think Zenyatta would have the edge because average Grade 1 males would be of similar quality to both the super star girls and keep Rachel honest allowing Zenyatta to beat her.

If the met at 10F Rachel would need help to beat her no matter what.

I think Zenyatta's connections understood that also and that's why they wanted to get her in the Classic where they would have an enormous advantage because the pace would at least be honest and it would be 10F.

In fact, I think Rachel's connections understood that also and that's why they avoided 10F last year and dropped out after her performance this year at 10F under pressure (sub par or not).

Looks like I won't get any work done today, yes I agree, in a match race Rachel would have the advantage. With Life at 10's situation Fri, maybe Rachel wins the ladies distaff, she finishes no worst than 2nd in my opinion, if she runs in the classic she probably finishes towards the rear.

I wonder if Asmussen/Jackson have pangs of regrets about retiring her so soon. She could have easily won that race on Friday based on 2010 form.

This is what I'm talking about. Explain to me how I overrated anyone this year. I overrated Rail Trip? How so?

Don't hide behind your stupidity. Explain yourself, prove what you are saying for once.

Since you rejoined here in July, it's kind of hard to dig up posts from PA. But you did infer on that other forum that Zenyatta was afraid of Rail Trip didn't you? Now to infer that you are afraid of someone, one must have a somewhat high regard for that someone don't they? I told you there then that Rail Trip was an extremely overrated horse and the times compared between the 2 races that Zenyatta and RT ran esp when you consider she carried 129 and he only 115 were greatly exaggerated.Maybe you were just hoping anyone would beat Zenyatta and RT was the horse you thought could, now I do agree she should have run against the boys as I think it would have taken next to nothing out of her, but again you blame that squarely on the shoulders of the connections, not the horse.

First off, you idiot, I never said Zenyatta was afraid of them. I don't think she cares where she runs. Her connections were afraid of him and at the time I thought it was hilarious because he isn't much. Remember the top of the mountain stuff?

So again, how did I personally overrate anyone?

I hate to get in the middle of this one, but IMO......

1. There is a difference between between being afraid of Rail Trip and not wanting to face him because it might be a taxing effort to beat him. Many people disagree with the perspective of her connections, Sheet players and others. But some feel that an easier well spaced campaign maximizes the chances of a peak at the end of the year. Right or wrong, that was their goal and belief.

2. I don't think Rail Trip's effort for Dutrow says anything about his ability. He was having problems, missed a race, wore an aluminum pad, and was on dirt for the first time. I'm not sure what the plans are for him going forward, but if he's still in training we may learn more about him later on.

Who cares what the difference is?

You were over at PA, you know Dahoss's posts, after Rachel skipped out of the Apple Blossom and lost to Zardana, it obviously ate away at him and when Zenyatta won the Blossom he was hoping Rail Trip would have been the horse to take down Zenyatta. Based on his view of the race he ran in the Californian.

Either way the result was that she didn't face him, but one implies fear of losing and the other implies long term strategic thinking. Subtle but significant as to motivation.

You are so full of sh.it it's coming out of your ears. I get it. Since you have no arguement make stuff up. You're in good company there.

Fear is fear. They were afraid of losing then or later in the year. Must everything be a hedge?

You telling me you didn't want Zenyatta to face Rail Trip in the Gold Cup? That's very hard to believe, and you would be rooting for Zenyatta as opposed to Rail Trip. That's a major a stretch.

Keep moving those goalposts. You have yet to prove your accusations earlier because you can't.

Nothing new here sissy.

We already discussed this.

WE are all fully entitled to disagree with their ideas, race selections etc.... But they wanted to win HOTY and thought the best way to do it was to win the Classic. So they structured her campaign in the way they thought maximized her chances of delivering the best race she was capable of at age 6 on BC day.

Now that they've lost, we are all free to second guess their decisions and suggest what might have worked better. But I understand their thinking even if I don't agree on all the details.

I'll tell you what, if PA begs me to come back. I would be happy to remind you, veiled comments and all. Your opinion of Zenyatta sure seems to have changed since this spring.

The point is they were afraid of racing against Rail Trip in the Hollywood Gold Cup. We can each interpret in in our own ways or speculate the reasons why. But it doesn't change the main point, which is that they did not want to run against him specifically in that race.

More making stuff up. My opinion has been the same. She's a very, very good horse. I said it then and say it now.

Look at how YOU have twisted and turned since this morning. Hilarious. What a sissy.

Ask him to explain his euro wet turf is firm stance.

I think we could probably make a long list of connections that avoided other horses in specific races because they didn't want to meet them until the end of the season or in a specific key race.

I guess we have a different definition of fear.

I define it as not wanting to face an opponent because you are afraid of losing to them. That was not the case here. They simply wanted to meet and pummel him later.

Who cares about the other connections? No one is talking about them. We're talking about specific connections that avoided a specific race and the excuse they used was another horse was "the highest mountain" and they didn't want to face him.

I'm going by what they said. Feel free to go by whatever you'd like. Had they made mention of her not being 100% or something else, okay. That didn't happen. Even if they were just looking to pad her record (a real distinct possibility) that would mean they were afraid to face him because they thought he could beat her.

Ugh, thanks for making me read his post Hoss. I guess I did that to BTW earlier, so fair is fair.

I really love the part though, about they didn't want to pummel Rail Trip now. They wanted to save that pummeling for later on! How precious is that?