No, it shouldn't. I gave you empirical evidence from yesterday and the last three years that shows you're wrong. You have a bunch of anecdotal crap you heard from somebody. It's staggering how little you know about racing.

I was sitting past the wire... she never passed him. But, my word doesn't mean much when actual video of the race shows this.

call me crazy, but i'd rather see top horses face off then have one horse taking on a bunch of nothings. yesterday was her first face off with a gr 1 winner. her owners thought before yesterday that she merited hoy consideration- i find that laughable. the best two races this year were when blame met quality road, and yesterdays classic. zenyatta should have broken new ground this year-she should have been in the big cap, the pac classic.

and smarty jones drew more fans to oaklawn to watch him run the belmont on tv than has showed at zenyattas races this year.

The anti-Zenyatta fan people are now adamently talking about gallop out results just to further prove their point yet they are very mad at people who love Zenyatta. Pot-kettle-black. Yeah, lets talk about gallop out results to REALLY prove she is an imposter to our incredible horse racing sensibilities. Look at the gallop out results you silly Zenyatta fans who love her!! :D

Yeah, that's what happened.

I've seen people posting about gallop out results on this thread multiple times as if it actually means anything.

Grass is green. Where am I wrong there....(yes in the winter when it turns brown so I am wrong there.)

Sky is blue...where am I wrong there....(yes, when it is grey in heavy cloud cover...so I am wrong there.)

ARe you onestly telling me people weren't posting about the gallop out after the race??

Does that mean that You DIDN'T watch a majority of her races this year? And if you didn't would you say that is true for a majority of the board?

Also, the belmont is a classic and you are talking about an undefeated horse going for a triple crown. I was there, 128,000 people deep in the rain. I was also there for Funny Cide and the next year when he won the JCGC in front of like 7,000 people.

When was the last time Zenyatta had a crowd as small as 7k? I agree, they need to challenge her and I said as much earlier. But whether they do or not, she is still a draw and great for racing.

Short-term, sure. Long-term, I really don't think so.

Putting everything else aside, I think it would be great if they moved forward with her. Run her till the day she does not fire.

Yeah, but those people don't bet enough and they make signs with Zenyatta dancing and it is a mockery of the sport and it's integrity. They should like other things and not be fans of her. She was not good for the sport in any way, shape, or form and if she hadn't lost by a nose yesterday, the world would be a far worse place.

Am I learning good on here so far?? I gettin better and smarter now no?? Was this a proper post in the Zenyatta thread stuff??:D

You're not funny.

I think racing can use all the short term it can get right now. Don't you?

Sure I am. And so are you!! And am I really trying to be funny is the question as well. Do you really know that?

So, becasue Curlin did great things after the TC, and becasue Fly Down, Paddy O'Prado and LAL finished ahead of Etched, and because Rachel Alexandra (who was NOT pointed for the TC but DID manage to beat Mine That Bird in the Preakness) beat older males once and won HOY, somehow you feel there is no truth to the argument that the rush to make the Derby and the Derby itself take a disproportionately hard toll on many horses who in turn have their careers shortened?

You're the one who made the assertion. I disagreed and gave you a counter argument. You still don't have an original argument. Until you come up with one, you're talking out of your ass as usual.

yep, i watched. didn't bet a dime, so how does my watching help? i watch racing sometimes for hours, without a big horse on the card. how did it help that all those folks showed up with their stupid z hats and signs? did handle increase? ownership? did the fan base grow?

as for a draw, she is. i didn't say she wasn't. what i said was if they keep her racing, i hope it's to put her where she belongs.

some, like super saver, had their careers shortened due to breeding purposes. others fall off the trail because they showed they didn't belong. some are due to injury, illness, etc. the thing is, those things may have happened even without pointing to the classics. horses don't run harder because they know more money is on the line. those same injuries, illnesses, and being passed by your peers talentwise would happen regardless if a horse is in stakes, allowance, or claiming company. some are in over their heads and have to drop in class. others just tail off. soundness comes into play. but making a blanket statement that it's all due to the trail to the classics is lacking in accuracy.

Who gives a sh*t if my argument is original?

This is undoubtedly upset you becasue I don't have the facts to back up this claim, but I would wager that the Kentucky Derby is the final race of more horses' careers than any other single race. And comsidering some of the horses who run in it haven't even had their 3rd birthday, it should not be.

Agreed. Good thing that's not what I said.

Talking out of your ass, thanks for confirming. And comprehension issues too. Original as in your base argument, not original as in unique, genius.

How do we know? How do we know that there weren't a couple of future Freddymos or DrugS out there in the stands for the first time to see big Z for the first time? How do we know that in this age of female empowerment that Z didn't inspire a few new female horse owners or horse players for that matter?

When is the last time that we had a star that could be cheered for more than two seasons tops?

I am not delusional about her talents. I knew what she was coming in and that opinion hasn't changed (actually enhanced some).

What would be the draw if they bring her to Saratoga next summer? I would bet all of the money Rockhardtenfan lost yesterday that it would be bigger than any non travers card in the last twenty years. Of that bunch, you really don't think there would be a few new players or owners?

i don't understand why you're keeping on with this. i said i'd like to see her back, but in different races than she ran this year. what's wrong with that? wouldn't those fans watch her in the big cap, or the pacific classic?

Personal foul, unnecessary roughness. 15 yards and an automatic first down.

You are showing some semblence of sanity here dala which you often do (despite your abuse of me in other locales!!).

I posted this earlier and got no replies which is not surprising. If you knew nothing of the dancing that the horse did and just said 10 years ago knowing nothing of synthetics, here you will have a horse who will win her first 19 races. She will be the first mare to run in 2 BC Classics. She will be the only mare to win a BC Classic, she will be the only mare to finish 2nd in a BC Classic and the only loss of her career would be a very close photo loss as a 6 yr old mare in her last race of her career in her 2nd consecutive Bc Classic. What would we think of that horse??

Yeah, we all wanted more from her schedule, but really what would we think if someone gave us this scenario 10 years ago??

She would have raced other top horses during her streak, because they would have shipped out to Cali to race against her on a natural dirt surface. So if she was still undefeated, it would have been an incredible feat and I'm sure she would have been applauded for it.

Well hopefully we would take the blinkers off and realize things aren't necessarily that simple. It's the same kind of thinking that would make Kobe Bryant a better basketball player if he wins two more championships.

Yes, applauded for it and an incredible feat. Zenyatta didn't put synthetics in Cal nor did her connections. My only point is that it still is an incredible feat and she should be certainly applauded for it more than I read on here. That's it.

Oh give me a break. She's applauded plenty. Trying to talk some reason into people who want to make her more than she is isn't the same as ignoring her achievements.

It wasn't done to our liking, but no matter how much me or anyone else complain and moan about what races she ran in her career, Shirreffs did have her primed and ready to go in three straight BC events with two wins and a photo loss. I will begrudgingly give him credit for that. To get there he played it soft and cost her HOY this year and he needs to accept that. I find it irritating that attitude, but he knew his horse better than me and had her ready but just not quite as ready as Blame, and I hope he is punished that he played the all eggs card then cries to overturn it. And I guess that is why people are upset at this Zenyatta stuff....but it's mainly the horse I try to look at.

I do love the talent of his horse. she's really good. She's just good.

People here take it too far in both directions. I honestly don't read everything in the Paddock section, but have a ton of posters readily proclaimed her the greatest of all time ever??

Vic called her the greatest female ever yesterday. Without hesitation. What do you think he would've called her if she won? The hyperbole has been nonstop all year.

The GHOAT.

I can't knock the horse. I even liked the dancing. I'll give her this...regardless of the weak fields she's faced, she's no punk b.itch.

No one can know any of that. My best guess is you could certainly safely put her top 10 to 15 female without hesitation or is that getting too far out there?

No they didn't create them, but they didn't go out of their way to take on top class horses away from them. That's the beef almost everyone has. How do you measure a horse's real talents, when she continues to run against most of the same horses on an unperferred surface of many top horses? It's a shame, she ran big yesterday. Makes you think that they should have traveled with more often and then alot of these arguements would have been put to bed a long time ago.

Yes. That's a bad feature of the BC. Not just Zenyatta people play it that way. I mean Blame only ran 5 races this year and also had to win the BC Classic to be considered for HOY. Despite his foster and Whitney wins, he too needed this race.

I think part of this has to do with timing. It could very well be that she was a victim of the synthetic era just as much as it seems she was a beneficiary of it.

If BC 2008 and/or 2009 had been at Churchill as opposed to Santa Anita, might she have proven her point? If last year's BC was at churchill downs, might her connections been a little more "aggressive" in their campaigning? And if it was at churchill last year, what horse was going to beat her based on what we saw yesterday and the form she showed last year? Again, I know that this is speculation.

We can only pretend to know any answers to these.

I think she was a victim of her connections that for certain reasons didn't want to ship her across the country. She would have been a force on the dirt as well and it's a shame that she was never given other opportunites to prove how good she was by racing against other horses, then against most of the creampuffs that she continued to beat on the Cali circuit (BC 09 aside, even though that wasn't a tremendous bunch either).

But that's not what he said, is it? Calling her top 10 or 15 is entirely different than calling her the best.