I like it when he is alive in the final leg of a pick 6. It doesnt matter if it will pay $2000 or $20,000 he is still a treat to watch.

Haha, I have seen him when he is alive too Euro. I can't even describe it.

I also love to see him when he makes his decision and starts heading to the windows. I would swear that he would push a feeble old woman down to get there, smacking those lips all the way.

I'm so glad you've come around Gander.

Sometimes it takes me awhile but I usually see the light, LOL!
All those many months I was not appreciating Ghostzapper. It was mainly because he didnt run enough but it was for important reasons.

Hopefully I will see you before you hit the road, but if I dont, safe travels and it was nice talking to you during the meet. I will be at Bel on Oct 7th, 100% chance. Peace.

I'm working Wednesday, Thursday and Friday and may stick around for the races this weekend. I'll probably see you.

ateam, forgive my ignorance, but what exactly have you been doing up at Saratoga this summer? As in, what is your actual occupation?

In May, 2002 at the time of Seattle Slew's passing, Dan Rosenberg of Three Chimneys Farm said that the name of the great Slew would live on and on through his amazing line. I think he was right and we are really seeing it through his best son at stud A.P. Indy. Bernardini could be another one great on the track and great in the breeding shed.

i love slew, and hope that you're right! bernardini will get the best of shots when he moves from occupation one to two..and mineshaft is another with a huge chance. and then pulpit at claiborne... and vindication at hill n dale. they're doing their grandsire and sire proud.

Slangin' sausage, baby!

You are absolutely right. Roses in May was a very good horse. He would have won the BC Classic many other years. He happened to get unlucky and run against possibly the best horse of the last 20 years. I think GZ's performance in the BC Classic was the best perfomance ever in the BC Classic.

With regard to Bernardini, he is obviously a great horse. I don't think Invasor would have any shot against Bernardini. I would make the over/under on how may lengths Bernardini would beat Invasor by at about 3 lengths minimum. That is a conservative estimate. If they ran in a match-race, I think Bernardini would beat him by at least 5 lengths.

Wow. thats quite a statement rupert. It would make for a really interesting topic. I loved Cigar's and sunday silence and tiznow's respective performances as well for that race.

Rupert, I think Invasor is a great horse, but I also think he could be sitting on a bounce. My best guess is that Bern matched his top last time out or threw a slight top. I think he actually could be improving. I have to agree with you that he would be my bet in a heads up with Invasor.

Yeah, Tiznow's beats Zappers IMO, Zapper had an easy lead, but it was quick, his fractions were wicked...That being said, Tiznow is down a head and comes back in the biggest race of the year, serious sense of timing to throw it all down

Scav, heart is a great thing, but Zapper would have blown Tiznow so far off the track that he wouldnt have known what hit him. I really think that those who romanticize the sport and certain horses are great, but I think it often clouds their sense of reality. Noone in the world I ever saw in 24 years of watching this sport was gonna beat Ghostzapper that day in the BCC, noone. And Roses performance that day remains the single most underrated performance in history. he would have won any other running and was dead game.

Tiznow's is the one I remember the best, still sends chills down my spine the heart he showed battling back between Sakhee and Albert, and Durkin's call, but Ghostzapper's has to be the most dominating IMO.

Zappers BCC was without a doubt the fastest fig wise. It wasn't quite exciting to watch until you went back and got a better view of just how impressive his internal fractions were. I don't knock Zapper or his fans. He was a bit fragile though, could only race a few times a year, but when he was right, he was very right. I think 10 furlongs wasn't what he wanted to do, which is scary. A flat mile on dirt in the Breeders Cup would've been wild to see just how fast he could run it in. To me that was his best distance.

I think Albert the Great is also very underrated. He was one tough dude to pass on his day. Really a game animal.

You have got to be joking. He beats Cigar? Or alysheba?

Mineshaft was next on my list. To me, his great year was just that, great. That burst of speed he had was crazy. And the only race he lost was ironically his highets fig ever due to Albarado deciding he needed to be 7 wide, idiot.

LOL!!!
Non sheet guys are pretty funny!!! Alysheba? Cigar? Do you ave any idea just how fast Zapper was? I suggest you hit the archives at TG and take a look. he was absolutely insanely fast. he would have crushed either,

That wasnt what i was questioning although that is debatable. I was questioning whether or not roses in may "would have won any other running" of the BCC.

his number was faster than both wins, as was his fractional energy use breakdown. I say yes, his performance was better than the wins by the two you named. You guys seem to forget how nice that field was and how far back the rest of em were.

You question whether Roses In May would have won any other BC Classics? He would have won most of them. RIM ran good enough that day to win most other years. I'd have to look through the archives, but off the top of my head I would say that the race that RIM ran in the Classic would have won the BC Classic probaby at least 7 times out of the last 10 years, probably even more. He ran huge that day to GZ. He beat the rest of the field by about 3-4 lengths.

With regard to Alysheba, I was a huge Alysheba fan. I bet him in the Derby. Even though I was ahuge fan of his, I will tell you that GZ would have killed Alysheba. It would have been no contest. GZ is in a totally different league. GZ is a freak. Alysheba was a really good horse but GZ is another league.

When you say "GZ would have killed Alysheba" and "GZ is another league", you probably should add "when GZ was able to run".

How fast would GZ have run that BCC if it was HIS 9th race of the year?

My response to statements re GZ is usually, yeah, but what if Alysheba and GZ raced against each other 9 times in a year? Which horse would win more? I think there's a good chance it would have been Alysheba. If so, who's the "greater" horse? Why should greatness be determined by a single race match race? Why not best of 9?

Don't get me wrong. I think GZ was phenomenal, and agree, too, that RIM would have won many a BCC. But when comparing two horses, there's more to it than assuming they each run their best race. Some like Alysheba and Cigar (and Mineshaft!) demonstrate excellence by running at the very top level race after race.

--Dunbar

I agree with you. There are many criteria to use in determing greatness. GZ was obviously not as duarable as most of the good horses over the years. GZ was a bit fragile. I was simply talking about GZ on his best day. When he ran his race, which he usually did, he could pretty much beat anyone.

Yes, I agree with everything you said.

GZ was a bit fragile

The understatement of the century. Held together like a glass figurine.

gz's bcc was as exciting to watch as war emblems. yaaawn.

a good performance, but watching golf was more exciting...

and i nominate randalls sentance above for understatement of the year! 'he was a bit fragile....'

a BIT?

arrrrghhh!

lol
ya beat me to it. timing is EVERYTHING.

at any rate, i second the motion!

And I agree with your last statement, too.

I just looked up Alysheba's record. He won 6 Grade I's as a 4-yr-old. AND, he set track records at a mile-and-a-quarter at Belmont and the Meadowlands. Not too shabby.

from http://www.equineinfo.com/alison/aly...tm#racedetails

"WON Breeders' Cup Classic (gr. I, 1 1/4 mi.), Santa Anita H (gr. I, 1 1/4 mi., 1:59 4/5), Woodward H (gr. I, 1 1/4 mi., 1:59 2/5, NTR, top-weighted), Meadowlands Cup H (gr. I, 1 1/4 mi., 1:58 4/5, NTR), Charles H. Strub S (gr. I, 1 1/4 mi.), Philip H. Iselin H (gr. 1, 1 1/8 mi.), San Bernardino H (gr. II, 1 1/8 mi.). "

--Dunbar

Its actually an interesting theory. How much better would Cigar and Skip Away had been if they only ran 4-5 times a year? There is no telling. Perhaps those horses werent as medicated and were able to hold their health better. I have a friend who uses blow 5-6 times a week and lets just say he looks more like 50, rather than the 32 he actually is. He cant exercise more than once or twice a month.

assuming he gets the easy lead again, yeah, maybe....that's the funny thing about theories, you can insert any horse, any random event.

i always like the inaugural bcc...shame that slew o gold was off that day, they shouldn't have run him, but i understand why they did.

Ahem....Deb????

easy goer was fragile, shugs work with him was phenomenal. gz was made of glass. and no way i'd breed to that, not in ten million years. just what the sport needs!

LOL

yeah man??? sorry, not a golf fan....

i can go back and edit, change it to bowling!

just giving you a hard time babe.:cool:

oooohhh, those are my favorite times....


lmao
i bet the look on your face is priceless!

:eek: *faint*

lol

hey, did you go play doc...i mean, go to the doctor today?