I loved Fu Peg. Big Brown SUCKED.

Yeah Esky wouldn't make my list either. Maybe Bellamany Road if you got Esky on here.

I think one could make a case fupeg was the most talented of that group in 2000.

Big brown hardly sucked. He didn't beat much but that fla derby win was pretty darn impressive any way you cut it.

Did anyone name street cry?

No, he was ok. Popped by Left Bank at the Spa. Left Bank was freaky good. Ended his career with back to back 121 beyers, one going 7f in the Grade 2 Tom Fool the other going 9f in the Grade 1 Whitney. Also ran 118 beyers winning the Cigar Mile and the Vosburg, both Grade 1's

People have brought up Discreet Cat a few times, I think Left Bank would have handled him.

Left bank must have eaten his wheaties before that Whitney. Amazing how he got that 9f

Street cry was just "okay"? He was extremely talented. He just couldn't stay together.

How about Speightstown who only missed the board twice in his career, first in his debut, and 2nd going two turns in the Gotham. Beat BC Classic Champion Volponi in a 7F sprint off of a nearly 2 year layoff, ended up getting laid up again later that year for almost another year and then came back as good as can be in 04.

Speightstown took a while to get good, but from 3/27/04-10/30/04 he was a beast....

5/6 with one third. The third came against a very good Frankel horse and Stown had some trouble at the start. Beyers of 106,112,115,116,117 and even a 102 in that bad break third. My problem with him is Pretty Wild, Cat Genius, Kela, Clock Stopper and McCanns Mojve are the horses he was beating up on.

so, borrego was a beast and big brown sucked.....your take on talent is interesting to say the least.

1.) Zenyatta
2.) Furthest Land
3.) Vale of York
4.) She Be Wild
5.) Man of Iron
6.) Dancing In Silks
7.) Joe Flacko - or whatever it was the '08 BC Classic winner was named
8.) Stardom Bound

There are tons, but I'll add one to the list (there are dozens more)... Xtra Heat.

It's borderline a crime that Congaree's name hasn't been mentioned after 50 posts in this thread.

He overcame a ton of health issues - six weeks after breaking his maiden he toyed with Monarchos in a very swift Wood Memorial win - followed that up with a 3rd place finish in the Ky Derby where he ran a miracle mile and still ran a 109 Beyer despite hitting the wall in the final furlongs.

He was amazing for a one year stretch as an older horse.

A crime? Why dident you mention him instead of the crap you posted above... Lets look at your list again. Put your powers to good use, instead of this filth....
1.) Zenyatta
2.) Furthest Land
3.) Vale of York
4.) She Be Wild
5.) Man of Iron
6.) Dancing In Silks
7.) Joe Flacko - or whatever it was the '08 BC Classic winner was named
8.) Stardom Bound

Where was Congaree here?

Nobody (including me) even going to make a case for Quality Road in terms of "raw talent". I guess everyone fell over themselves jumping off the bandwagon after he was beaten a neck last week by what is probably the best horse in America now. QR has been to post 11 times and set 4 stakes/track records at 6.5 and 9f in NY and Florida. Pure speed and ability can't be questioned.

If only anyone had seen that Rachel Alexandra horse run in the KY Oaks for Wiggens.

Quality Road is one of the best horses I have ever saw. Im still disapointed in his Whitney effort and for letting me down, and proving my dream false.

No love for Invasor? Travels from Uruguay to the US, to Dubai, back to US, back to Dubai. Unbeaten in the Western Hemisphere. Made Bernardini look one-paced in the BC Classic. Or are only front-running/right off the lead sorts the only ones who have 'raw talent?'

Since it's no fun debating the obvious ones. . .

Here's an obscure one: Magnificience. Her debut was a thing of beauty. . . and then came the synthetics.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyfhfFmhidg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3H9wfE7hgrM

I was actually going to post this but thought I would be laughed off the site. She also returned in her 2nd race to post a 109 beyer in a grade III. Probably the most impressive maiden race I have seen and surely a great indicator of raw talent.

I believe it wasn't untill her year long injury that coincided with her permanent switch to synthetics that made her very ordinary.

Invasor is surely one the most easily forgotten solid horses, but he doesn't really jump out at me when I think raw talent. If anything, he seems like a horses that got EVERYTHING out the talent he did have. He brought it everytime. If some of the other horses on this list had that quality they would have been all-time greats.

I don't understand at all your hatred towards Big Brown and love towards borrego. One actually had a decent about of raw talent and it wasn't Borrego.

You have Eskendreya on your list who is by far the most comparable horse to Big Brown. Both with ultra impressive prep races over pathetic competition. Similar beyers, trips, etc/ The only difference is Big Brown actually won the Kentucky Derby in style (4 wide all around). I think your judging BB on what happened after the derby where for whatever reason he wasn't the same horse (but the raw talent was there).

Borrego ran 2 really good races, one giant visually impressive race.
He is not really on my list, but I just mentioned him when someone brought up Bellamy Road.
Eskendereya IMO would have CRUSHED BIG BROWN.

Borrego wasn't that much and certainly not a raw talent.

His big race was an optical illusion aided by a very strong pace. The final half mile was like almost 52 seconds.

Ok. I guess the Pacific Classic was nothing...
With the **** we have saw the past few years no less.

Being the most visually most impressive (in which Borrego would no doubt qualify) doesn't equate to raw talent. I think most would agree the reason it was SO visually impressive in the JCGC was because of the trip he got. That's why no one is awarding a great like sinister minister any raw talent award for his heavily aided blue grass win.


I think Eskendereya was extremely talented, and the 3 year old division still hasn't found anything with half the ability he has, but to say he would have CRUSHED Big Brown is awfully bold considering how similarly their careers began.

That was another melt down race - they went 22 and change and 45 and change at 10fs and he basically outfinished Perfect Drift and beat PD by like a half.

Borrego was like an older horse version of an Ice Box or Giacomo.

Ok.

Here's a race for you to handicap PG'85. Assume they're all healthy and run to form. Give me your trifecta.

Distance: 9 furlongs
Track: Saratoga
Surface: Dirt
Race Name: The Only Way Zenyatta is Beating Rachel in NY on Dirt Stakes

Thats a sick race you put together, I would toss Bernardini out with Prado up.
So much speed, Z and maybe Victory Gallop? I dont know, what do you think? Is the track playing fair?
Narrow it down to a more reasonable BCC like 14. THen Ill give you the cold triple.

Tiznow, Dubai Millenium, Ghostzapper, Formal Gold tri and exacta box

Skip Away and Ghostzapper = top 2 spots
(3,5 / 1,3,5, / 1,3,5,8,13,16)

Caller One sets a fast pace and fades to last.
Zenyatta takes advantage of the fast early pace to pass Rachel and Azeri at the wire to nicely secure 23rd place.

You're crazy. Zenyatta is like the best horsey EVAH. She wouldn't even be asked and win in a gallop.

The first thing I notice is many of the past p's if not the majority are cut off at their best races? I want to see them all, nothing like a little slight of hand.

In the last 10 years, in no particular order:

Ghostzapper
Candy Ride
Lost in the Fog
Dubai Millenium
Zenyatta

You wouldn't have had this ticket based on Skip Away's last race, he ran like crap.

I'm well aware of Skip Away's last race.

I'm confused, why are we bringing up Skip Away? His last year was 1998.

Because DrugS got bored with the original question and asked a new one.