had cali not mandated all the awt's, and the bc been held on dirt last fall, there's no doubt in my mind rachel would have run a different campaign, and been at the bc.

perhaps people aren't happy with the zenyatta camp because they said they were going to travel with her this year, and let her fans see her.

So why is this acceptable? Synthetics are a part of the game, they run over synthetics at Keeneland, one could argue the best other then Toga.
Is it because people cant except change, or is it because Beyer people cant make figures the right way for synthetic races?

I can't be 99% sure as you are, though I will say is it more likely. But not a chance Jackson would be in So Cal to face Zenyatta in the Clement Hirsch if that race was on dirt, that I am 99.99% sure.

Oh boy.

Its change

Our generation is fine with it, the old cranky people set in their ways just bitch and complain instead of educating themselves on it. It isn't like they can't just avoid it.

Bet you take a poll and people from 0-30 are fine with synthetics, people from 31-40 will be unfavored, and people 41+ the majority will hate it.

you keep saying they are a part of the game, in a few years time i don't feel that will be the case. there is a very real gulf between dirt and synthetics. even bob baffert prefers shipping a horse to the east and running on dirt. that's very, very telling. as is the lack of horses in california. the move to synthetics was supposed to address that problem yet it has not. yes, i know there are less owners-but why is cali the one taking the brunt of that?
so, altho there are synthetics, it doesn't mean the trainers want a part of it. todd pletcher used to ship out to cali fairly often. not any more. why do you think the chrb has now said they can go back to dirt? because it's a failed experiment.

and as for keeneland, they're part owner of an awt company. of course they're going to use it. awt seems to work in places without weather extremes. woodbine and keeneland are examples of that.

You know what I think is sad? That Rachel Alexandra, faults and all, has run at one fewer track this season (three) than Zenyatta has (four) in her entire career. How many top notch horses run 17 races and only manage to visit four different locales? Southern Image ran in as many places and that dang horse only started like eight times.

I don't know if it's fair to say that. Agreed that JJ will not win any popularity contests in the near future. But how do you know that any California races wouldn't be on their map if in fact they ran on dirt out there? California isn't in play for them so they scheduled, not well but accordingly. Who knows, maybe the BC would have been in play last year instead of the Woodward. It's not a surface they want to run her on, so they can't be blamed for not racing there.

This is not as far fetched as you may believe, there is a anti synth bias that exists, you know this. We know Beyer has struggled with synth figs where he had to go into a long explanation of adjusting them last year.

Do you just make this stuff up? Lots of people who don't read will take your statement as a fact when its purely fantasy. Why would he go to Saratoga when the Travers was NEVER under consideration by MP and BB?

http://www.drf.com/news/lookin-lucky-recovering-illness

and the plan was to ship right back to Ca after the race till he got sick.

Fair points. Mine is just my opinion alone, I think he has shown himself to be less than sporting than what was once believed.

Dang right there's an anti-synth bias. I hate the crap. I hate watching races on it. I hate how it freezes in the winter and melts in the summer. This is freaking America. We run on dirt and when that doesn't work, we run on grass, and when that doesn't work, maybe try jumping over a couple of fences. But ground up sneakers and tires? That's just un-American.

Not sure its Beyers fault.

What is he to do, use a projection system for every race? The surface does not yield times traditional to a parallel chart like dirt. Its very much like turf where his figures hold about the same water.

The bottom line is in general the very best grade 1 horses in Ca can compete with the best grade 1 horses in NY or Ky, just dont use the figures.

no, i don't make up stuff. i read they had considered several options including the travers. i also read that since he's in saratoga, they're considering the woodward. i had also read that baffert was more interested in running on dirt, rather than synthetic. yes, he was sick, and yes, they have decided to remain there. i think that has more to do with the desire to stay on dirt than the illness.


from bloodhorse:

Baffert said it was a stroke of luck that he kept Lookin At Lucky at Monmouth Park following the Aug. 1 Haskell because it would have been a worse situation if the colt had been shipped while having a fever. Baffert had previously considered shipping Lookin At Lucky to Saratoga, although he was not fully committed to running in the Travers.

Dude, be serious for a second. Look at what Slotdirt is saying. The reason why dirt horses don't ship to California is the surface. That has nothing to do with people not accepting (or excepting) change. It's a third surface. Just like if the entire state if New York had only dirt races. You'd understand why the turf horses weren't shipping in to run.

Why people don't like synthetics for racing is an entirely different conversation.

It's really far fetched and based on nothing.

agree completely

though there is a perception that synthetic horses cant run on dirt and that synthetic horses are not fast, when its likely the opposite, most are being inhibited from running larger figures by synthetics.

bob baffert:

"He broke fine and Martin eased him to the outside," Baffert said of the winner. "I knew we’d lose a little bit of ground, but that was the winning move.

“At the three-eighths pole, that’s when you know you’ve got a good horse because they’ll be pulling you. Martin was still sitting, but when he pushed the button, the horse really took off. You can’t make that move on synthetic, but on dirt it was the winning move. That’s really what I like to see -- running fast horses on fast tracks."
Baffert has always maintained that Lookin At Lucky was a better horse on dirt than on synthetic surfaces, which the colt has raced on for most of his career.

your quote and rht's are apples and oranges

Slotdirt just admitted he hates synth, but let's ignore that.

I think synthetics, on the whole, have not been good for racing in this country. I don't think I'm alone in that opinion.

FTFY.

I must have missed the part where he said he hates it because Beyer was struggling with making figures for it.

I rarely if ever use figures when I handicap and I can't stand the "racing" over it either. One has nothing to do with the other.

I agree, I wasn't paying attention.

I also agree with why they don't go to California.

I would run a dirt horse at Hollywood, but not the others.

i was giving him an example of a trainer who prefers dirt over synthetic, that's all.

A waste of a response. If you want to bash me, at least do it with some sort of response to the subject.

Another waste of a response.

dude thats everyone, other than maybe Christoph clement or James Cassidy.

I don't mind synthetics, but I wish everyone would recognize that is truly is a 3rd surface along with dirt and grass. Comparisons across the lines get blurred, so it's impossible to make definitive statements about ability which is what the Zenyatta crowd wants to ignore. A great runner and the best synthetic runner in 5 years, but there is no history beyond that to make any definitive statements. Right now, the history of racing in America is largely a history of dirt racing, and on dirt Zenyatta has proven very little with a couple of Oaklawn wins and a scratch (afraid of off track) at Churchill. Maybe we will look back in 50 years if all tracks are synthetic and say Zenyatta is the greatest, but that's a long way in the future.

I did a quick scan of the 3 most prestigious races in So Cal, The Hollywood Gold Cup, The Pacific Classic and the Santa Anita Handicap, winners only. Only 2 eastern based horses have won any running of these races since 1995 Cigar and Skip Away before the sythetics age. If winners are any indication, the evidence does not show horses ship out west any more than they do now. Einstein shipped and won on rubber, so I see no difference they would ship out west more if it were dirt or atleast as it pertains to winners.

EInstein? You mean Einstein, the TURF horse?

Interesting that Zenyatta has spent nearly her entire career in Southern California and hasn't made a start in any of the "3 most prestigious races in So Cal..."

You do know she is a filly/mare.

Excuses are like a-holes.

You do know that fillies/mares run against males often.

And she did win the BC Classic.

Does this ever get old?

You know, I hate that the Breeders Cup has expanded as much as it has, but with synthetics in play, it's just not possible to fairly run the Breeders Cup at a single track. The synthetics horses need to be separated into their own divisions. Honestly.

For the record, you brought her up. You then posted she didn't run in either the Pacific Classic, Hollywood Gold Cup and Big Cap as to infer she never raced against males. So I mentioned the BC Classic to you, yes this never gets old...for you.

The topic is about Zenyatta. I found it interesting that even you acknowledge that she has avoided the most prestigious races in the area she has spent nearly her entire career. Races that she was eligible for and could have run in.

I never inferred she has never raced against males. I'm familiar with her racing record. I was commenting that this all time great has not run in any of those prestigious races. How many other all time greats can we say the same thing about?