I agree, and Zenyatta hasn't faced a "challenging" field yet this year (although the Apple Blossom was no fault of hers). Now is the time to challenge her, in a race over her home track.

Just like RA had nothing to do with the original topic, neither did Quality Road. However, if Quality Road were to win the Met Mile and Whitney while Zenyatta continues to beat up on SoCal females, Zenyatta's connections will put her in the position where she has to win the BC Classic to win a HOY title.

That's where the money and 99% of the connections in the world are pointing for, since it is on dirt this year, I thought you would agree.

What does this have to do with the topic?

Yes, I was wrong about Rail Trip. Happy? I doubt it....as you are as miserable as they come.

Now, that we have gotten past that, try to actually make one post that is related to the actual discussion. Surely you can do this once.

Depends on who QR beats in these races. If it's the same contingent he handled down in Florida, or that RA beat last year, then I'm not buying it. Any 'special' older males running this year? It certainly doesn't appear that there's a special 3 year old this year. And, let's face it, QR is not going 10F down at CD.

If I owned this mare and I brought her back, at an age when most would retire her, because I felt that she should've been Horse of the Year last year, why would I go out of my way to put her under extra pressure? Especially when the reigning Horse of the Year doesn't appear up to it this year.

This is not to say that RT, or anything else out in CALI, offers much in the way of competion for her in a fairly run race.

Actually, as Cardus points out, there is more to racing than the Breeders' Cup, and who's to say that she'll even make it to that race six months from now.

We all know that she'll probably only have, at most, four lifetime starts. And I think it's a pretty safe bet to say that, if she's racing in the fall, the final two starts of her career would likely be the the race formerly known as the Lady's Secret and the BC Classic. (And for the reason TFM noted above, I'd have no problem with the Lady's Secret, knowing it was a prep for the Classic.) There is absolutely no excuse for her not to run in the Hollywood Gold Cup, unless the mid-season portion of her campaign is simply about ducking meaningful competition until the Breeders' Cup.

Actually, if Zenyatta continues to simply face females, it probably won't, because of the competition that Zenyatta will have faced in the Apple Blossom and is likely to face in SoCal F/M races. Even if the Donn, Met Mile and Whitney were to turn up (by historical standards) sub-par races, HOY voters are probably going to favor the horse that won those races over the horse that won the Santa Margarita, Apple Blossom and Vanity. If Zenyatta were to win a race like the Hollywood Gold Cup against the top handicap horse on the West Coast, it completely changes the equation.

Hey Vic did ya catch The Lone Star Derby yesterday? Great race.

This is some thread. It has both TFM and Stauffer. Not sure who is more of a grade one jacka##. Although I gotta give Stauffer an iota of credit. He doesn't start threads mentioning rides by Tim Thornton on 6-5 shots. That was a beaut by TFM. He must hold the record for most threads started with ZERO replies.

Stuaffer though really needs to stay off the internet...........

Actually Vic, if real racing fans had a choice of seeing Zenyatta campaign the same old boring "run vs 5 horse fields of mediocre horses in So-Cal" or staying retired most would say stay retired.

I was one of the ones who applauded The Mosses for coming back......hoping that with The BC being at CD in 2010 they would try something different and campaign outside of So-Cal. Yes they did ship to OP which was great. But instead of going to CD and run in a real race (Stephen Foster ) on the same track as The BC, they once again take the easy way out. Nice race for ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZenyata coming up at HP.

But of course since you are the race caller for HP you probably think it's great that the Mosses are running at your home track against probably 5 optional claimers. Hopefully Mr. Moss grows some balls and at least runs vs Railbird in The Gold Cup after Zenyatta wins her next practice race.

Like open company versus restricted?

Ah, can't ya just feel the love in the air here at DT … lol


Would've been great to see Z in that Foster, but can't blame the connections AT ALL for pointing her to the Vanity again instead.

She's on the verge of doing something historic … and obviously has a better chance of breaking the record by racing at home against females.

Doing anything else AT THIS POINT would be foolish, in my estimation.


If things go as planned in the V, wouldn't be surprised if they point her to the Gold Cup NEXT.

Historic for sure!

No supposed top horse has ever dodged competitive races like Zenyatta. Hooray!

She kinda reminds me of that horse that ran in New Mexico who won 16 races or so against the SAME horses over and over. I can't remember the horses name.....shocking.

I love how everyone applauds the Mosses for keeping her in training. They guy is in his mid 70's. The chances of seeing Zenyatta's babies run is not great. Further is there any guarantee they will be any good. It certainly looks like they enjoy watching her win. Why would they have retired her if she's sound. Especially since they are going to run her against creme puffs all year.

Nothing stopping the supposed HotY from coming out to test the dual BC champ on 6/13...

Still sore about Zenyatta losing eh?

Why would 2010 HOY Rachel Alexandra want to go run on a different surface than the BC in a meaningless race at a meaningless track. I am sure the connections will run her at a real track like Belmont or Saratoga.

Although this thread is unfortunately becoming yet another RA-Zenyatta thread, I think the original poster raised an interesting point.
Personally I can't really blame the connections of Zenyatta if they decide they don't want to follow Quality Road and Rachel (and whomever else might emerge this year as a decent runner) all around the country the entire year. Perhaps they figure they have the best horse and so it isn't their job to make a big race happen, particularly after they did their part at Oaklawn earlier in the year.

That's all fine. But when there is a big (and historically significant) race IN SoCal, with a pretty darn good horse running in it, it strikes me as a different matter. They already know there isn't going to be any competition for her from fillies or mares on the synthetic. Everyone knows that. So why not run in the bigger race against the better competition? If they truly want her to be considered an all-time great, running in races like the HGC against a real horse sure seems like a better way to get that done than beating up on a couple of hopelessly overmatched allowance-types.

Not wanting to ship all over the place chasing the top horses in the entire country is one thing. Deciding not to seek out a race against a good horse on your own track is something different.

Cigar's 1995 campaign included all these races. He didn't need to reserve his best race for one big one. He traveled all around the country and took on open company on dirt anywhere.

His only flaw was his disdain for turf surfaces.

Oaklawn Handicap
Gulfstream Park Handicap
Hollywood Gold Cup
Jockey Club Gold Cup
Pimlico Special
Breeders' Cup Classic
Donn Handicap
Massachusetts Handicap
Woodward Stakes

The other horses aren't going to chase her to California because of the silly surface they are running on. Like it or not, no other big time racing outside of Keeneland's few weeks each year run on the stuff, and we all know they do it because they sell the stuff.

NYRA...no. Churchill...no. Gulfstream...no. Until Zenyatta beats talented horses on dirt, she'll just be a specialist on a surface that will most likely be gone in a decade.

I assume its already been stated publicly that they have no interest in running in the Vanity to get the 17th win and then running four weeks later in the Gold Cup? I don't see why that would be such a stretch, in fact it makes a lot of sense. Then they could take off two months and return at Oak Tree and start in the BC.

I hear what you are saying; however what she is doing is no different to what other race horses are doing these days. I am actually more dissapointed on her passing the Stephen Foster where this would have been a true test for her rather than facing Rail Trip on cushion. Let's wait to see what the connections have in store for her the rest of the yr before jumping the gun on the critical dept, it is her first race back since running in the Apple Blossom, if she faces a similar fields this year I may join you in being critical of her campaign, it's a long year and atleast there has already been one major difference in her campaign this year, she shipped out east. You can't fault her if no one wanted to face her, that was out of her control, all things considered she will ship out east atleast twice this year and run on dirt twice this year, anything more is pure gravy the way I see it.

Oh I don't know … maybe cuz she's lost a TON of street cred … and beating an UNDEFEATED DUAL BC CHAMPION at her home track would go a LONG way in restoring her tarnished reputation.


And she'll probably get beat there too...

I understand your point, but I think you do have to give them some credit for their trip to Oaklawn this year. Hopefully she does run in the HGC following her next race, and then comes East to run in a big race. I'd love to see it, and if she does run on dirt against a really good dirt horse, I'll almost certainly be betting against her.
My point was simply that I can't really blame them for wanting to run in Cali for awhile, but IF they stay in Cali but choose not to go in the HGC, that's pretty weak.

Who are the really good 1 1/8th or beyond horses, the only one with any real ability is slated to run four times this year in Quality Road, who else?

He's only slated to run in the Met Mile and the BC Classic?

He'll be in at least two of the following four preparing for the BCC: Suburban, Whitney, Woodward, Jockey Club Gold Cup.

NT

We're facing the very real possibility here that Z will go undefeated. There's really nothing that can beat her on synthetics (on the west coast) in a fairly run race, and, unless the male older dirt division finds a new star, that can go 10F, she'll dust anything out there presently in the BC. I mean, Rail Trip could hook her in a very small field and control the pace and somehow beat her. It's possible, what with his new jock and all. It's doubtful, however, that even if Pletcher were to go over the border and get some of that even more special Jordan elixir for QR, that he'd get 10F out of him on a non speed favoring track.
And, I don't see how RA makes it back in the picture at the moment.

It's slowly and steadily becoming a reality for her detractors that she just might prove them all wrong. Imagine that so many who have otherwise very strong opinions could be so wrong about this horse. Imagine 20 years from now DrugS Jr. is on some forum comparing horses historically using Beyers: what does he do with her? :zz:

Or Mike the EUNUCH going to his grave muttering: "she never ran FAST, so she was never any good. RA was better.":rolleyes:

All of this is deliciously wicked.

All she has to do is face a horse this year that beyers 119 in a race so that she can beyer 120 to make Drugs happy, maybe he will even admit he was wrong. We are still waiting on his explanation of what went wrong with Rachel here on DT. That should be illuminating...

ok, 5 races then....answer the question, who is this horse I am waiting to bet on as I asked? Cause I dont see much of anything that can run long on dirt.

Wait until some of the real handicap races start being run.

NT

Something went wrong with RA? She's still running > 100 Beyers, isn't she? Which means she still FASTER than Z (and thus better).

I don't know what you're talking about, Willis. :rolleyes:

There sure aren't very many, you're right about that.
Right now I would almost certainly bet on Quality Road and Rachel Alexandra in a dirt race against Zenyatta. Beyond that? Who knows. The 3yo crop sure doesn't look like much, but it is always possible that somebody in the crop (Ice Box? Super Saver? somebody else?) continues to improve and therefore turns into a legitimate 9f+ horse.

I thought we've been through this....Quality Road has run twice this year ( the Hal's Hope and Donn ) and will run at least four more times this year ( Met, Whitney, Woodward and/or JCGC, and BC Classic ) assuming he stays sound. No, nobody is saying that is an abundance of races...but stop trying to make Zenyatta look less bad;)

What's wrong with Quality Road at 9f?

The way Pletcher's horses are running, nothing. The question is can he keep it up the rest of the year?

He is the only one I see that has run on dirt with real ability, and that includes super saver. I could be wrong about that horse but I think he got lucky to get 10 furlongs last week.

We know your position, she sucks;)

Lol … too funny



Must be boatloads of RA lovers out there who want to see Z slip up SOOOOOOOOO bad


I'm enjoying this TO THE FULL. :D

Like others have stated, most owners have zero interested in running on a joke of a surface at HP. Zenyatta has proven she loves synthetic 14 times.....yay. She is a great synthetic horse. Running a 15th time in The Vanity is borderline ridiculous and weak. If she was to retire now she will go down in history as a horse who was very good on a surface a majority of the good horses don't take to. How many turf horses does the world really remember? Not many. That's where her legacy is heading.

As far as RA vs Rachel? Obviously RA isn't the same horse she was when she had her historic campaign to win HOY in 2009. So far in 2010 Zenyatta is the better horse. She has won two races she was supposed to win...unlike RA. RA's reputation is far from tarnished....that's pretty hilarious to say as she ran two good races and got beat at the end.

Hopefully The Moss's just run one more pretend race in So-Cal and head out to Saratoga this summer. If she were to at least run somewhere else myself and others would have a lot more respect for her (even if she loses). Run on the same surface as the BC. Do something DIFFERENT.....otherwise running at Hol and Dmr this summer will be more of the same old boring campaign which cost her HOY last year.

Rachel is toast. Her last race last year cooked her. Can't believe people doubt a horse that has never lost. Don't care if she was running on glass. QR would be a good race but we may never see it