Why is it that z barely beats the slugs but Rachel demolishes them. For example, see her 20 length win in the Oaks, her 19 length win in the Mother Goose, and her eight-length wins in the Martha Washington and Fantasy.

There are a lot of horses I would wonder whether she could beat at 9-12 furlongs on real dirt, but Summer Bird is not one of them--nor is ANY horse racing today ...

You would have to reach in time and quality to find a FEW that I would question that she could beat, but what is out there today, she does beat-damn the Beyers .

It was a great period when folk could read a stopwatch and interpret how a track played on their own .

Now some have to wait for Bias to tell them how fast or slow a race and a horse are .

I'm glad you mentioned this.

If I had a say in the matter the Met Mile would be the one race I would like to see Zenyatta run in this year.

My guess, before the BC anyways, is the best we'll get is the Delaware Handicap.

I'm guessing for the rest of the year:

Milady
Stephen Foster or Fleur De Lis
Hollywood Gold Cup or Delaware Handicap
Lady's Secret
Breeder's Cup

The only intrigue in seeing her in the Met Mile is Quality Road .

She has not run under 8.5 furlongs since her maiden win at 6.5 furlongs first out .

Perhaps a longer race against QR would do--after all, he is one of two horses considered real opposition .

Now put Rachel in there and it gets interesting --in the Met Mile that is ..

I'd be shocked.. and happy.. to see Z face males again before the BC... but I doubt it.

I think one thing is certain and Del Mar is just not a real option, she slips around on that track and with the short stretch its need the best place for her, so I can see something in the midwest or late Belmont if they had a race she could run in. Saratoga is not happening either.

I agree. No chance at Del Mar. Shirreffs doesn't seem to want any of his horses running on the main track there. That's why I presume they'd take the opportunity to "freshen" her up during August/September rather than running out of town.

Personally, I wouldn't fault them for not wanting to ship more than 3 or 4 (including the BC) times in a single year.

That's why the "showcasing" idea put forth by Moss is a bit unrealistic. I thought the best chance to do that would have been for Shirreffs to keep a string at Belmont the second half of the year, with Zenyatta obviously based there.

That is crazy. z has NEVER beaten males on real dirt, so it is pure speculation to say she could beat Summer Bird or any other top male horses in training on real dirt. On the other hand, Rachel has already proven she can beat Summer Bird and other top male horses in training on real dirt.

If Moss had guts, he would announce now that the Foster is on their schedule. I doubt she leaves SoCal again this year until the Classic. They are too worried about "perfection" to test her against males on real dirt.

I think she'll head to CD for a start in either race mentioned, if not because Rachel Alexandra is in one of those, then to get a race over the track prior to the BC.

It kills a lot of birds with one stone.

I think the Delaware Handicap is a slam dunk race (in terms of playing to her strengths--not that she'll definitely go there) and would be about as East Coast as she will get.

A flat mile would presumably contain both sprint types and route types, so she could "accomplish" a lot by winning this one race. I think she's capable of handling a flat mile.

The distance would also favor Quality Road IMO were he to show up, and in that respect would be a major challenge for Zenyatta.

Love Lethal Heat :(

ehh, flat mile for a horse her size I think would be very difficult if there was a quality miler, say at a flat mile she could never catch a really good horse without a total meltdown.

I love it , blame the mare because no trainer has one he thinks is good enough to beat her and enter up. Trainers run against her because the second and third place monies are too good to take a shot of passing up.
Zenyatta runs , not her fault that there arent any trainers or owners with good enough horses to beat her , or do they have some superstar in the making that is being hidden behind a bush at the 1/4 pole waiting to jump in and get her lol.
Until they beat her she is the best in her field bar none.

I agree a flat mile is within her scope, but probably will not happen .

The suggested Met Mile scenario is intriguing though ...

She would be up against it for sure, but the pace of a top quality mile would in general be rather quick, so a meltdown (and I don't think it needs to be a "total" meltdown, either) wouldn't be out of the ordinary.

Horses of her size, such as Unbridled, Rock Hard Ten, and Forego (there are others--and most of those I mentioned had similar running styles to Zenyatta) were certainly capable at 7f, so extrapolating to a mile is probably not too presumptive.

Size has nothing to do with it--it is handiness and distance .

Roseben, a champion sprinter of the early 1900s was even bigger than she, a fraction under 18 hands ...

Baffert's recent sprining horse--can't remember the name--was almost as big as she is ..

Midnight Lute

Thank you--that is the one .

It is equally pure speculalion to say she can't .

She is very facile on dirt.

Rachel proved something LAST year so it may be meaningless to imply that she continues to be less than perfect on her preferred surface .

You are speculating ansd so am I--the difference is that until it is done, neither knows, but one record is flawless on both surfaces .

She can and will beat males on dirt, just as she beat them on synthetic .

My opinion, specualtion etc .

There is however more evidence that she will than she will not .

95 Beyer.

:tro:

This evidence being? She has never raced against males on real dirt, yet you are ready to reach back to years past to find male horses that can challenge her on real dirt.

"You would have to reach in time and quality to find a FEW that I would question that she could beat . . ."

I do, and giving him weight.

Summer Bird is being used as some sort of gauge of greatness? I'm still trying to figure out the other "top'' males Rachel beat, I'm assuming the great Macho Again and Bullsbay? Zenyatta would beat those two in a canter, and Summer Bird would hardly be a horse they would fear.

Like she beat those Apple Blossom slugs in a canter? LOL. At least Rachel has a record against males on real dirt. All the Zaniacs have is speculation.

And a sparkiling resume, David.

Midnight Lute's first foal is out of Tough Tiz's Sis. I'd be shocked if she doesn't end up being pretty massive. Watch her look like Megahertz.

Don't you mean the Zenyatta?

How do you know my first name?

You think she struggled? I thought she was going to start bucking and playing around when she hit the front, not bad earning a 95 beyer in
a workout.

She beat those slugs just the way she should have--without exertation or flash .

You are loaded for bear with speculalion--this is 2010--so far Rachel has not beaten males on real dirt, and what finished behind her equally qualifies as slug material , if you like such insults .

The mare that finished in front of her surely would have been a slug if she finished behind Zenyatta on any surface --she gained credibility only because she finished in front of Rachel .

You'd better save those LOLs until the book is complete dear--unless egg on your face is becoming--and it may be ...

Nope. All we have is an undefeated mare who showed up and put up. R.A. is a good filly but she has been beat and Zenyatta hasnt and until someone shows up and beats her R.A. will still be a horse that has lost races and Zenyatta will still be ...well unbeatin.

And wins and losses have nothing to do with level of competition of course. Peppers Pride was undefeated too, it doesn't make her better than certain horses who have lost.

You need not be pedantic and preachy--we all know Man P' War, Secretariat and other supreme race horses got beaten, and that does not make them inferior to Pepper's Pride OR Zenyatta .

You know what Honu was saying--that Rachel has shown she can be beaten, and Zenyatta has competed with the best that ran against her and has not been beaten yet . .

Hmmmmmmmmm....

There was a quote I remembered reading on the Eskendereya thread. It went something like:

"beyers are for clowns. 88"

Who said that?

Again you cannot fault the mare because no one has a horse that can beat her , yet.

You forgot that special nite already, or is it denial?

I just think that Zenyatta's running style against the best on Belmonts one turn mile would be the great race to watch as she rolls down that long stretch and the others with no place to hide, only to run faster than the preditor.

:tro::tro::tro: