I don't know what you are insinuating with LaPenta. He's probably not the easiest owner for a trainer to deal with, but I don't recall his ever insisting that horses be pushed too hard or placed unrealistically. Or sent to the desert to try an unorthodox path. And he's certainly not a sleezy type like some prior Derby winners.

Seems to me like Lapenta and Zito have been a great team.. I don't know either but it seems to be quite successful. They have been together a while and I would assume respect each other?

From what you hear about him? Please - do tell!

I wasn't insulting you at all.

I was denigrating the trainer you were being compared to.

I'm sorry, I know you weren't. For some reason, Indomitable Drug was.

A few people on Thoroughbred Champions were talking about how La Penta always pushes his horses and used DaTara as an example (for instance, well after he'd proved he wasn't up to the task, LaPenta/Zito put him in spots he didn't belong). If they are wrong, then I apologize for making such comments. For all I know, those posters could have been people with a grudge for some unknown reason.

Or they could have been ill-informed idiots with keyboards.

NT

The folks over there are 80% pretty pony fans who have never had anything to do with campaigning a racehorse. The important word there is racehorse. They all seem to think if a horse runs a poor race he should get "time on the farm." Sometimes what they need in MORE work, harder training but if you do that you are called a butcher.
DaTara won the Belmont. Thats an example of bad management? That fact that that horse won anything is a testament to good management, not bad.
I know Nick and have met Robert LaPenta a few times. He's a very good owner in terms of giving his horses time and running them where they fit. I had the uncomfortable distinction of watching the Wood Memorial with Zito and LaPenta when War Pass was trying to rebound and earn a spot in the Derby. I felt bad for them that day, they really thought that their colt was the goods, he sure had looked like it at 2. They did the right thing and stopped. After an on the board run in the Wood, most owners would have pressed.

It's Zito's call on Fly Down. The colt has not worked since his allowance win and that tell me all I need to know. Miner's Reserve has pedigree and his maiden was pretty nice. At this point, with so many races left and no clear leaders if he were mine, I'd be pointing for the Kentucky Derby. Does that mean "press on at all costs?" No. It means move into a stakes race. Lets face it that G3 Sham last weekend was just that. The allowance that Radiohead won was a tougher event. The 2 colts in the Sham with more than a maiden win were dreadful and the winner was exiting a statebred maiden.
Granted, the stakes get harder now, but spots are out there. I wouldn't want him killed (figuratively speaking here) just for a graded check, but to get an idea how he stacks up against this crop.

As for Jackson Bend, I think he's better at a mile against serious horses but he's not exactly been a dud. His two races for LaPenta were seconds behind well regarded colts. I don't think he wants any part of Eskendereya going 2 tuns but I'm not sure how tough the Wood is going to be.

i didnt really read it as an insult. you said you were very conservative and he compared you to john ward, who is also conservative with running his horses.

I can see how you think that. I took it to mean though that she is incompetent, since he seems to be an incompetent trainer.

That's always a possibility, lol

Fly Down worked yesterday, by the way, but I appreciate your post. That's good to hear about La Penta (I never had a problem with Zito)... now I feel badly, lol.

Ah -I didn't exactly know what he meant. I just know that I've not seen too many positive things about Ward written here, so I assumed the worst.

LOL I would rather not be known as the John Ward of posters as, despite my post about Miner's Reserve, I believe race horses should actually be raced. I was furious last year when Godolphin decided they were going to run Music Note all of about 4 times. I guess I should have been grateful they didn't retire here, but I almost wish they would have. What kind of campaign was that?

I think John Ward manages Godolphin now.

LOL...He must. I saw Girolamo on the work tab some time ago, now he's stopped working. If he's not hurt, they must have decided to put him away to point for a 1 race Fall campaign.

Since you think race horses should be raced, does that mean you objected to the way Zito managed Commentator?

Commentator wouldn't have stood up to more than they did. They knew how brittle he was.
I hate it too when perfectly sound horses are trained forever only to pull up with a fracture a week before their forst race in 4 months. Why not get him out there while he's training bullets for 10 weeks???!!!!

I think the campaign actually helped her, her sprint at Toga was her first fast race EVER... Then she came right back to run fast again beating Pletchers horse... Her 3yo campaign was nice and SLOW.

I didn't follow Nick Zito and Commentator so I don't have an opinion. I'm not suggesting they run 12 times a year, but or 4 times for a perfectly healthy horse is ludicrous.

Music Note was not a slow filly as a 3 year old.

I disagree... Her best race, she never threatened.
And, if I recall correctly she got a dream rail run in that race.

What race are you talking about? In any case, she was a very good 3 year old filly IMO.

BC against Zenyatta. Her Alabama was thrilling and all, but not really great. I guess with all the slow horses we have now a days, she clearly looks better then she is, but I actually think her 4 yr old campaign helped validate her.

Not exactly slow, per se, but she was hardly very fast for a horse considered one of the two leaders in her division.

You and Indian Charlie have made the point to me that I was trying to make here, compared to even 10 years ago almost everyone is slow in todays racing.

So how do you know which horses are perfectly healthy and which are not? Commentator had plenty of issues and it was remarkable how Zito was able to keep him in training so long and win at the highest level. His campaigns were as good as they were going to get under the circumstances. Other horses who are lightly raced are likely done so for a reason.

Yet the sheet guys say they're getting faster.....

When a horse is galloping and recording works every 7-10 days it's pretty fair to say it's healthy and sound. When the groom tells you she's got her "fighting attitude" and is getting tough to manage, it's a good bet she's good and healthy. If you watch horses long enough to discern their behavior has they go from "off the farm" to "fit to race" you know what they act like as they come to fitness.

So you are gathering this information about all horses or are you making assumptions?

I am gathering info for horses I follow via stable mail. In some cases it's horses I see with my own eyes as they train and in others its from talking directly with people who are involved.
When the horse in question is a stakes runner and he's working every week or so and galloping in between it's fair to guess that nothing is seriously wrong. If the worktab stops or is reduced, maybe something isn't right. My issue is when a good horse is working bullets and skipping races that seem like perfectly legit spots because trainers are cherry picking where they go.
That is not the same as a horse that is widely known to have issues that must be handled with kid gloves (Commentator for example) whose trainer is taking all precautions.
Sometimes it's tough to tell the difference but since I work in racing and have the chance to see the horses train for part of the year and have developed some connections I can usually discern which is which.