Only 25% disbursed, just only about a year into a multiple-year program. Too soon to judge the program as a failure, IMO.

All these major economists who missed the simple truths I posted years ago about this situation and where we were headed. Right-o.

"Spend More, that'll save us."---Famous last words. Your president is a failure. Through and through. Both parties suck royally.

Insightful depth to your analysis.

And by the way - he's your President, too.

Sadly that's true, but I sure as hell didn't vote for him.....Just don't trot out idiot economists to support your faulty logic when they have been shown to be vapid over and over again.

And you are welcome to demonstrate your own "faulty logic" and keep ignoring the overwhelming majority of respected economists who have said the stimulus was not only necessary, but has now been shown to be clearly working.

Yeah, yeah, yeah ..... yawn.

again how can the nearly 20% who were unemployed last year get a tax cut???

if you don't work and have no income because you lost your job how can you get a tax cut when your income is zero ?

all i did was the math, i guess everyone can judge if one job is worth between 125k and 250k to produce. wonder how many years that person will have to be employed for the govt to even break even. on that investment?
the problem is, when times are booming, the govt is supposed to take advantage of the fact that they don't have to support a lot of unemployed workers, and won't feel a strain on benefits-which gives them an opportunity to save. that way, the gov has a nest egg in lean times so that they can come to the rescue, without adding to an untenable situation. ooops. the last few years are a failure of colossal proportions, and it's not looking to get any better. speaking of which....scuds mentioned obama breaking his campaign promise regarding the armenian genocide. what about his vow for a more ethical govt? another promised change that we'll have to do without. oh, and earmarks? read on....


http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...389494288.html





don't care for the wall street journal? there's always the washington post:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...rss=rss_nation



"This constant claim by members that there is no link is specious, because we can see the link," said Melanie Sloan, executive director of Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington (CREW), a nonprofit group. Sloan referred to data showing that well-targeted defense industry donations are routinely followed by earmarks or other legislative benefits.

Taxpayers for Common Sense, a nonprofit group that has criticized earmarks, has noted that 68 percent of the companies and universities that wanted earmarks and contributed to Senate defense appropriators this year got them, whereas 48 percent of those who did not make contributions got them. A similar outcome occurred in the House defense subcommittee, said Laura Peterson, a senior policy analyst at the group.

Well..maybe it did

There is no income tax on the first $2400 of unemployment bennies. If that ain't a tax cut , I don't know what is.:$: :rolleyes: 48% of the people pay no income taxes as it is. This fact alone can "radically transform" America when these people vote to keep the gravy train rolling fueled by the sweat and blood of Americans who are fortunate enough to still have a job. Nevermind that the gravy train is headed off a cliff. The disaster that is California will be coming to a State near you as the current administration tries to transform the entire country into California. I think it was Riot who said something about friends bugging out of that State. Why? High Taxes? Some segments of our society are more mobile than others. When the whole country is in the same condition as Cali, there won't be anywhere to move to. America is still the last stand of freedom in the world.

it saved us? lol no, it was a temporary fix that is only going to put us deeper in debt for a few years down the road. you did see the new cbo numbers just the other day? the ones that showed the national debt is about to pass 4% of our gdp, which is the tool they use to show sustainability. it continues to rise in leaps and bounds til we won't be able to make our payments any more.

Kicking the can down the road is not a savior. You take the medicine now or later. And later is worse.

When you are at the end of the road kicking the can down the road is no longer an option. For an administration so focused on "fairness", what is fair about putting the debt on future generations of Americans. Sometimes you have to go through tough times in the present to spare the future generations from tougher times. Bunning is a villain for trying to get the senate to go by their own PAYGO rules? The scamulus was just that, a scam. Re-election fund for the Democratic Party. Reward tool for backers and a punishment tool for detractors. TARP has been mostly paid back, but did any of that $$ go to pay off the deficit like it was agreed upon?

Perhaps buying more time can allow you to fix some immediate problems. Something needed to be done. The stock market was at 6500 and heading south. The economy was in freefall.

I'm not going to sit here and say that the stimulus "worked" and the economy is suddenly "better". What I will say is that something had to be done pretty fast and doing nothing at the time would have made the situation dire. People, namely investors, needed to know that the US government wasnt going to stand by and let the system break down.

This stimulus wasnt nearly about gettting and spending money. It was about restoring some confidence.

Don't confuse Stimulus (American Recovery Act) with the TARP bailouts. TARP may have been a necessary evil (that I was totally against) the stimulus was a spending binge.

Necessary according to who?

According to the companies who took bad risks knowing they would get a Govt. bailout if they lost their @ss.

$800 billion divided by 200 million workers = how much per worker?

There are real problems with our infrastructure and this guy is creating middle management paper pushing gubment jobs that ad zer0 value.

So then it wasn't necessary.

And suck up even more tax revenue while putting nothing into the economy. When everyone is collecting a check from the Govt. who is going to pay taxes? When tax dollars come from tax dollars and it makes sense to our elected officials, we are in trouble. And we ARE in trouble.

Not to me. GM and Chrysler should have been allowed to go bankrupt along with the others on Wall Street. Maybe then they would be more cautious with other people's money. If elections have consequences then maybe bad investments should too.

Hey but it's 30 some jobs. LMAO

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LC211h9AY-4

Im not confusing the two. Tarp came in fall/winter 2008. Dow hit 6500 late winter/early march 2009. Stimulus helped take the market out of freefall. It didnt change the "economy" but surely you would agree that it changed the markets.

The problem that I had with the stimulus is that such a huge portion of the money went to non stimulus area's. My argument was that if more of the money was properly "invested" into the economy in different ways, private enterprise would expand, spurring economic recovery while creating real jobs. Instead we got a huge expansion of unsustainable (without future stimulus spending) social programs and temporary fixes. The jobs that were lauded while starting this fine thread are basically just temporary govt handouts. Liberals will say that it is better than leaving those people unemployed for the next year in its defense. But that is taking the low road as well because the jobs are not sustainable jobs for the most part, they are just a patch. So the money spent makes you feel better today but down the road when the bill comes you are gonna feel like the money wasnt well spent or worse just plain wasted.

Really? Do provide some detail that supports the above. What programs? What percentage of monies?

So I guess you missed the jobs that I posted as the start of this thread, huh? Exactly what you say is needed.

What "middle management paper pushing gubment jobs" are you specifically talking about? Name a few for us.

Do you have any idea of what was included?

http://www.propublica.org/special/th...st-of-spending

Sure do. That's why I asked you to explain why you think,

Still waiting.

Click on the link. Read.

Program Funding
Accountability $323,500,000
Department of Agriculture - Office of Inspector General $22,500,000
Department of Commerce - Office of Inspector General $10,000,000
National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration - Office of Inspector General $6,000,000
Department of Justice - Office of Inspector General $2,000,000
NASA - Office of Inspector General $2,000,000
Defense Department - Office of Inspector General $15,000,000
Department of Energy - Office of Inspector General $15,000,000
Department of the Treasury - Inspector General for Tax Administration $7,000,000
General Services Administration - Office of Inspector General $7,000,000
Recovery Act Accountability and Transparency Board $84,000,000
Small Business Administration - Office of Inspector General $10,000,000
Department of Homeland Security - Office of Inspector General $5,000,000
Bureau of Indian Affairs - Office of Inspector General $15,000,000
Environmental Protection Agency - Office of Inspector General $20,000,000
Department of Labor - Office of Inspector General $6,000,000
Department of Health and Human Services - Office of Inspector General related to the Office of the National Coordinator for Health Information Technology $17,000,000
Department of Education - Office of Inspector General $14,000,000
Corporation for National and Community Service - Office of Inspector General $1,000,000
Social Security Administration - Office of Inspector General $2,000,000
Government Accountability Office salaries and expenses $25,000,000
Veterans Affairs - Office of Inspector General $1,000,000
State Department - Office of Inspector General $2,000,000
Department of Transportation - Office of Inspector General $20,000,000
Department of Housing and Urban Development - Office of Inspector General $15,000,000
Aid to People Affected by Economic Downturn $36,910,807,000
Rural Housing Service insurance fund program account - direct loans and unsubsidized guaranteed loans $11,672,000,000
Rural community facilities program account $130,000,000
Special supplemental nutrition program for women, infants and children (WIC) $500,000,000
School lunch programs for schools in which at least 50% of students are eligible for free or reduced price meals $100,000,000
Food bank commodity assistance program $150,000,000
Temporary increase in benefits under the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (food stamps) $19,900,000,000
Food distribution program on Indian reservations $5,000,000
Agricultural disaster assistance transition - Federal Crop Insurance Act
Farm operating loans $173,367,000
Direct farm operating loans $20,440,000
IRS health insurance tax credit administration $80,000,000
Emergency food and shelter $100,000,000
Bureau of Indian Affairs job training and housing improvement programs $40,000,000
Indian guaranteed loan program $10,000,000
Community service employment for older Americans $120,000,000
Extra funding for state unemployment insurance $150,000,000
State re-employment services for the jobless $250,000,000
Child care assistance for low-income families $1,651,227,000
Child care assistance for low-income families through state programs $255,186,000
Child care assistance for low-income families to improve infant and toddler care $93,587,000
Community Service Block Grant Program $1,000,000,000
Social Security Act funding 50,000,000
Social Security Administration processing of disability and retirement workloads $460,000,000
Aid to State and Local Governments $58,355,000,000
State administrative expenses to carry out increase in food stamp program $295,000,000
Economic development assistance programs $150,000,000
Violence against women prevention and prosecution programs $225,000,000
Office of Justice Programs state and local law enforcement assistance (Edward Byrne Memorial Justice Assistance Grants) $2,000,000,000
State and local law enforcement assistance grants to improve criminal justice systems, assist crime victims and mentor youth $225,000,000
Southern border and high-intensity drug trafficking areas $30,000,000
ATF Project Gunrunner $10,000,000
State and local law enforcement assistance to Indian tribes $225,000,000
Crime victim assistance $100,000,000
Rural drug crime program $125,000,000
Internet crimes against children initiatives $50,000,000
Community Oriented Policing Services (COPS) grants $1,000,000,000
Justice Department salaries and expenses for administration of police grant programs $10,000,000
Community Development Financial Institutions Fund for financial assistance, training and outreach to Native American, Hawaiian and Alaskan native communities $100,000,000
Local and state fire station upgrades and construction $210,000,000
Disaster assistance direct loans may exceed $5,000,000 and may be equal to not more than 50% of local government annual budget if the government lost 25% or more in tax revenues
State Fiscal Stabilization Fund to avoid cutbacks and layoffs (82% must be used for education while 18% may be used for public safety and other government services. The latter part may be used for repairs and modernization of K-12 schools and college and university buildings.) $53,600,000,000
Business $870,000,000
Rural Business - Cooperative Service: rural business program account $150,000,000
Small Business Administration salaries and expenses, microloan program and improvements to technology systems $69,000,000
Surety bond guarantees revolving fund $15,000,000
Small business loans $636,000,000
Education $48,420,000,000
State grants for adult job training $500,000,000
State grants for youth job training and summer employment opportunities $1,200,000,000
Dislocated worker job training $1,250,000,000
YouthBuild program for high school dropouts who re-enroll in other schools $50,000,000
Job training in emerging industries $250,000,000
Job training in the renewable energy field $500,000,000
Head Start programs $1,000,000,000
Early Head Start program expansion $1,100,000,000
Education for the disadvantaged - elementary and secondary education 10,000,000,000
Education for the disadvantaged - school improvement grants $3,000,000,000
Education impact aid $100,000,000
School improvement programs $650,000,000
Innovation and improvement of elementary and secondary schools $200,000,000
Special education funding under the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act $12,200,000,000
Pell grants for higher education $15,840,000,000
Institute of Education data systems $245,000,000
Institute of Education state data coordinators $5,000,000
Dislocated worker assistance national reserve $200,000,000
School improvement grants awarded based on the number of homeless students identified in a state $70,000,000
Student aid administrative costs $60,000,000
Energy $41,400,000,000
Energy efficiency and conservation block grants $3,200,000,000
Weatherization Assistance Program (increases maximum income level and maximum assistance) $5,000,000,000
State energy program $3,100,000,000
Advanced batteries manufacturing, including lithium ion batteries, hybrid electrical systems, component manufacturers and software designers $2,000,000,000
Modernize electricity grid $4,400,000,000
Electricity grid worker training $100,000,000
Fossil energy research and development $3,400,000,000
Uranium Enrichment Decontamination and Decommissioning Fund $390,000,000
Department of Energy science programs $1,600,000,000
Advanced Research Projects Agency $400,000,000
Innovative technology loan guarantee program $6,000,000,000
Western Area Power Administration construction and maintenance $10,000,000
Bonneville Power Administration borrowing authority $3,250,000,000
Western Area Power Administration borrowing authority $3,250,000,000
Leading edge biofuel projects $500,000,000
Federal building conversion to "high-performance green buildings" $4,500,000,000
Energy efficiency federal vehicle fleet procurement $300,000,000
Health Care $18,830,000,000
Indian Health Service information technology and telehealth services $85,000,000
Indian health facilities $415,000,000
Grants for public health centers $500,000,000
Construction, renovation, equipment and information technology for health centers $1,500,000,000
National Health Service Corps funding $75,000,000
Addressing health professions workforce shortage $425,000,000
National Institutes of Health grants and contracts to renovate non-federal research facilities $1,000,000,000
National Institute of Health grants and contracts for shared resources and equipment for grantees $300,000,000
National Institutes of Health fund to support scientific research $7,400,000,000
National Institutes of Health Common Fund $800,000,000
National Institutes of Health renovations of high-priority buildings at the Bethesda, Md., campus, and at other locations $500,000,000
Comparative effectiveness research $300,000,000
Comparative effectiveness research by the National Institutes of Health 400,000,000
Comparative effectiveness research by the Department of Health and Human Services $400,000,000
Office of the National Coordinator for Health Information Technology $1,680,000,000
National Coordinator for Health Information Technology's regional or subnational efforts $300,000,000
Department of Commerce health care information enterprise integration activities related to the Office of the National Coordinator for Health Information Technology $20,000,000
Department of Health and Human Services computer and information technology security $50,000,000
Department of Health and Human Services Prevention and Wellness Fund $1,000,000,000
Prevention and Wellness Fund immunization program $300,000,000
Prevention and Wellness Fund evidence-based clinical and community-based prevention strategies $650,000,000
Prevention and Wellness Fund reduction in incidence of health-care-associated infections $50,000,000
Rehabilitation services and disability research 540,000,000
State grants for rehabilitation services and disability research $18,200,000
Rehabilitation services in independent living centers $87,500,000
Rehabilitation services for older blind individuals $34,300,000
Other $2,147,000,000
Census Bureau programs $1,000,000,000
Digital-to-analog television converter box program $650,000,000
President shall establish arbitration panel under FEMA public assistance program to expedite recovery efforts from Hurricanes Katrina and Rita
Requirement that Department of Homeland Security uniforms be manufactured and sewn together by U.S. fabric and apparel companies
National Endowment for the Arts grants $50,000,000
Department of Labor salaries and expenses $80,000,000
Additional awards to existing AmeriCorps grantees $83,000,000
AmeriCorps program salaries and expenses $5,200,000
AmeriCorps program administrative costs of expansion $800,000
National security trust appropriation $40,000,000
Social Security Administration health information technology research $40,000,000
Filipino World War II veterans compensation $198,000,000
Science and Technology $13,142,000,000
Farm Service Agency salaries and expenses to maintain and modernize the information technology system $50,000,000
Distance learning, telemedicine and broadband program $2,500,000,000
National Telecommunications and Information Administration - broadband technology opportunities program $4,690,000,000
National Institute of Standards and Technology scientific and technical research and services $220,000,000
National Institute of Standards and Technology construction of research facilities $360,000,000
National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration operations, research and facilities $230,000,000
National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration procurement, acquisition and construction $600,000,000
NASA science $400,000,000
NASA aeronautics $150,000,000
NASA exploration $400,000,000
NASA cross agency support $50,000,000
National Science Foundation research and related activities $2,500,000,000
National Science Foundation education and human resources $100,000,000
National Science Foundation major research equipment and facilities construction $400,000,000
National Science Foundation - Office of Inspector General $2,000,000
Veterans Affairs for hiring and training of claims processors $150,000,000
Veterans Affairs information technology systems $50,000,000
State Department technology security upgrades $252,000,000
U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID) technology $38,000,000
Transportation and Infrastructure $98,325,000,000
Agriculture buildings and facilities and rental payments $24,000,000
Agricultural Research Service buildings and facilities $176,000,000
Natural Resources Conservation Service watershed and flood prevention programs $290,000,000
Watershed rehabilitation program $50,000,000
Rural Utilities Service water and waste disposal program account $1,380,000,000
Defense Department facilities operation and maintenance, Army $1,474,525,000
Defense Department facilities operation and maintenance, Navy $657,051,000
Defense Department facilities operation and maintenance, Marine Corps $113,865,000
Defense Department facilities operation and maintenance, Air Force $1,095,959,000
Defense Department facilities operation and maintenance, Army Reserve $98,269,000
Defense Department facilities operation and maintenance, Navy $55,083,000
Defense Department facilities operation and maintenance, Marine Corps Reserve $39,909,000
Defense Department facilities operation and maintenance, Air Force Reserve $13,187,000
Defense Department facilities operation and maintenance, Army National Guard $266,304,000
Defense Department facilities operation and maintenance, Air National Guard $25,848,000
Army research development, test and evaluation $75,000,000
Navy research development, test and evaluation $75,000,000
Air Force research development, test and evaluation $75,000,000
Defense-wide research development, test and evaluation $75,000,000
Defense Department medical facilities repair and modernization including energy efficiency $400,000,000
Corps of Engineers investigations $25,000,000
Corps of Engineers construction $2,000,000,000
Corps of Engineers - Mississippi River and tributaries $375,000,000
Corps of Engineers operations and maintenance $2,075,000,000
Corps of Engineers regulatory program $25,000,000
Corps of Engineers formerly utilized sites remedial action program $100,000,000
Bureau of Reclamation water and related resources, including inspection of canals in urbanized areas $900,000,000
Central Utah Project water programs $50,000,000
California Bay-Delta restoration $50,000,000
Non-Defense environmental cleanup $483,000,000
Defense environmental cleanup $5,127,000,000
Federal buildings and courthouses $750,000,000
Border stations and land ports of entry $300,000,000
Department of Homeland Security headquarters consolidation $200,000,000
Customs and Border Protection non-intrusive inspection systems $100,000,000
Customs and Border Protection tactical communications equipment and radios $60,000,000
Border security fencing, infrastructure and technology $100,000,000
Land border ports of entry construction $420,000,000
Immigration and Customs Enforcement tactical communications equipment and radios $20,000,000
Transportation Security Administration checked baggage and checkpoint explosives detection machines $1,000,000,000
Coast Guard shore facilities and aids to navigation facilities $98,000,000
Coast Guard alteration of bridges $142,000,000
FEMA public transportation and railroad security $150,000,000
FEMA port security grants $150,000,000
Bureau of Land Management maintenance and restoration of facilities, trails, lands, abandoned mines and wells $125,000,000
Bureau of Land Management construction of roads, bridges, trails and facilities, including energy efficient retrofits $180,000,000
Wildland fire management and hazardous fuels reduction $15,000,000
U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service maintenance and construction on wildlife refuges and fish hatcheries and for habitat restoration $165,000,000
U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service roads, bridges and facilities, including energy efficient retrofits $115,000,000
National Park Service facilities and trails $146,000,000
Historically black colleges and universities preservation $15,000,000
National Park Service road construction, cleanup of abandoned mines on parkland and other infrastructure $589,000,000
U.S. Geological Survey facilities and equipment, including stream gages, seismic and volcano monitoring systems and national map activities $140,000,000
Bureau of Indian Affairs construction of roads, schools and detention centers $450,000,000
Superfund site cleanup $600,000,000
Leaking underground storage tank cleanup $200,000,000
Clean water state revolving fund grants $4,000,000,000
Safe drinking water capitalization grants $2,000,000,000
Brownfields projects $100,000,000
Diesel emission reduction grants and loans $300,000,000
Forest Service road, bridge and trail maintenance; watershed restoration; facilities improvement; remediation of abandoned mines; and support costs $650,000,000
Wildfire mitigation $500,000,000
Smithsonian Institution repairs $25,000,000
Construction, renovation and acquisition of Job Corps Centers $250,000,000
Social Security Administration's National Computer Center replacement $500,000,000
Military construction, Army - child development centers and warrior transition complexes $180,000,000
Military construction, Navy and Marine Corps - child development centers and warrior transition complexes $280,000,000
Military construction, Air Force - child development centers and warrior transition complexes $180,000,000
Military hospital construction and energy conservation investments $1,450,000,000
Military construction, Army National Guard $50,000,000
Military construction, Air National Guard $50,000,000
Family housing construction, Army $34,507,000
Family housing operation and maintenance, Army $3,932,000
Family housing construction, Air Force $80,100,000
Family housing operation and maintenance, Air Force $16,461,000
Temporary expansion of military homeowner assistance program to respond to mortgage foreclosure and credit crisis, including acquisition of property at or near military bases that have been ordered closed. $555,000,000
Veterans Affairs hospital maintenance $1,000,000,000
National Cemetery Administration for monument and memorial repairs $50,000,000
State extended care facilities, such as nursing homes $150,000,000
State Department diplomatic and consular programs for domestic passport and training facilities $90,000,000
International Boundary and Water Commission - Rio Grande levee repairs $220,000,000
Additional capital investments in surface transportation including highways, bridges, and road repairs $1,298,500,000
Administrative costs for additional capital investments in surface transportation $200,000,000
Capital investments in surface transportation grants to be awarded by other administration $1,500,000
Federal Aviation Administration infrastructure $200,000,000
Grants-in-aid for airports $1,100,000,000
Highway infrastructure investment $26,725,000,000
Highway infrastructure investment in Puerto Rico $105,000,000
Highway infrastructure funds distributed by states $60,000,000
Highway infrastructure funds for the Indian Reservation Roads program $550,000,000
Highway infrastructure funds for surface transportation technology training $20,000,000
Highway infrastructure to fund oversight and management of projects $40,000,000
High speed rail capital assistance $8,000,000,000
National Railroad passenger corporation capital grants $850,000,000
National Railroad passenger corporation capital grants for security $450,000,000
Federal Transit Administration capital assistance $6,800,000,000
Public transportation discretionary grants $100,000,000
Fixed guideway infrastructure investment $750,000,000
Capital investment grants $750,000,000
Shipyard grants $100,000,000
Public housing capital improvements $3,000,000,000
Public housing renovations and energy conservation investments $1,000,000,000
Native American housing block grants $510,000,000
Community development funding $1,000,000,000
Emergency assistance for the redevelopment of abandoned and foreclosed homes $2,000,000,000
Additional capital investments in low-income housing tax credit projects $2,250,000,000
Homelessness prevention and re-housing $1,500,000,000
Assistance to owners of properties receiving section 8 assistance $2,000,000,000
Grants and loans for green investment in section 8 properties $250,000,000
Lead hazard reduction

In other words, you got nothing but a straw man, trying to hide in a flurry of figures.

ROFLMAO.

If you didn't want a stimulus package, that's a different subject, but this sure seems like a great representation of the distribution of the money.

You are consistent at the very least. I gave you a link but that wasnt enough for you. You want specifics? It is an $800 billion package. How about you run through quick and show me where I was wrong?

The vast majority of this is not stimulus that will lead to sustained economic growth. A great deal is an expansion of govt and further funding of existing programs. Which is what I posted before and Riot seems to not understand.

IRS health insurance tax credit administration $80,000,000


money well spend no doubt!

Recovery Act Accountability and Transparency Board $84,000,000


Energy efficiency federal vehicle fleet procurement $300,000,000


i wonder how old the vehicles they replaced were, and i wonder how many miles they have to drive before they 'save' the first penny? after all, if you spend 30k or more per vehicle, to replace vehicles that didn't need replacing, how efficient is that really?

There are some good things funded too but that isnt the point. The point is that the vast majority of the spending is not real economic stimulus though it was sold and continues to be sold as such. People like Riot either dont know the difference, have never bothered to actually see what has been put in there or both.

Filipino World War II veterans compensation $198,000,000

Couldnt they have made due with 100,000,000?

Temporary increase in benefits under the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (food stamps) $19,900,000,000

While surely there are people in need, spending close to 20 billion on food stamps does not help create economic growth

sure, there were good things. but i recall one of the first things that happened when obama took office were across the board budget increases in govt offices. a stimulus may help, but the size and scope of what they passed...doing something is not the same thing as doing the right thing.

but if riot can't understand my skepticism, maybe this article will explain where some of my doubts come from:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35751553...s_and_economy/

if leading economists can't figure out what next...why should i think that everything is going to be just peachy? what am i supposed to think about the CBO announcing that the obama numbers aren't right-that the deficit will be even larger by 2020 than initially thought? why isn't paul ryan's manifesto getting some scrutiny?


why are we building an embassy that's expected to cost a billion dollars?!?!

I think there is a tremendous grey line in every program in determining what is actually "stimlulus" and what is waste. The Cons want a quantitative new job figure posted for each appropriation. Ironically, the Dems see a "trickle down" effect that may not create an actual job, but still benefits the economy and the populace in the long run.

The debt is absolutely a concern..but eventually..oh.in 2 years, this will have a positive impact and the unemployment rate will continue to drop and the stock market will CONTINUE to climb and the Republicans will be back to bitching about gays, guns and abortion...Kinda' like the Republican nominee for Governor in Illinois. Welcome to the dark ages..or, welcome to the world of Bill Brady.

Makes you almost miss Allan Keyes

http://www.wgntv.com/news/wgntv-bill...,7842897.story

Brady, 48, is married with three children. His social conservatism is rooted in his Roman Catholic faith and upbringing. He supports a ban on abortion, including in cases of rape and incest, with an exception only when the mother's life is at stake.

In keeping with the wishes of the insurance industry — his hometown's largest private employer is State Farm Insurance Cos. — Brady has fought against government mandates for broader insurance coverage, including mammograms for women and longer hospital stays for postpartum mothers.