I never realized that Rupert Murdoch owns both FOX and the Wall Street Journal.

And I see the Anti-Defamation League is tired of it, too. Glenn Beck gets it here: http://www.adl.org/PresRele/Extremism_72/5655_72.htm

You mean, a grain of salt like saying "millions" but not having any source for that other than "I think so"?

Without rehashing the entire debate, the stimilus package passed by Congress was not universally hailed as you suggest. The problem with the Obama stimilus packages was there was very little actually stimilus money involved.

It has? You really think that that was $800 billion dollars well spent? The economy is doing so well because of it? New and existing businesses are being created and expanding, putting people back to work? Where?

So you the unemployment rate really isnt that bad? Or are you trying to say that in times of 4% unemployment there are the same % of workers who dont find work after thier benefits run out as there is in times of 10% unemployment?

Recovery.com has totally made up information and yet the discussion turns to Fox news showing old pictures in lieu of new ones. The Govt out and out LIES about billion dollar programs and Obama says that we shouldnt focus on that. At least Fox had the courtesy to apologize.

I never said millions and millions idiot and that was a lame response. But you couldn't even do the simple research to determine if there was an extension and then apply the simple ****ing math. If you weren't sitting around in your ****ing bath robe stuffing your face with bon bons all day and were in the real world rather than googling and using the first thing that comes up (Usually Wikipedia) you would ****ing get it.

Here you ****ing moron. No extensions. Do the ****ing math jerkoff. Calculate all the possible work visas not simply H1 then factor in the extensions and those that get in queue for Green Cards. Get out of the house and into the real world. I'm pretty much done with you now as it is impossible to argue with someone whose view of the ****ing world is Wikipedia.

http://www.immspec.com/h-1b-visa-extension.htm

http://www.path2usa.com/immigration/..._extension.htm

Is it really all that? I use to get the same way and it really is no way to spend your day. Go get yourself a nice of cup of coffee and enjoy the morning.

That could be part of the problem..maybe too many cups?

Run for office. You have my vote :D

Sorry about the rant but I have zero tolerance for people that are stupid, lazy or obnoxious and she hit the trifecta

:tro: :tro:

The company I work for has actually benefitted from stimulus money.

OK, I don't doubt you, however, let me ask -- unless you did the accounting yourself, would you have a number on how much it benefitted, both in terms of increased profits and any "jobs saved"?

In the simplest case, let's say you owned the company. You were planning to lay off people, because you had to and the balance sheet was in the red. Then you get a shot in the arm from the government and no longer need to lay people off. That's obviously a legitimate case where you could say jobs were saved. You knew you had to lay people off, you knew how many, you're obviously not deceiving yourself -- that's all real.

Now, go to the more common case where you can't be sure of the validity of any information from the bookkeeping, management or legal arms of the company. Many would argue that the potential for deception is high, saying "Oh yeah, we had jobs saved as a result of the stimulus." That's where a lot of the skepticism comes from on this issue.

But Joey..be honest..you and most of the right wingers won't believe ANYTHING that a Dem or Liberal says. You don't believe in Global Warming, you don't believe that the Stimulus did anything good for anyone, etc. So why would you believe Bigs or anyone else who claims there was a benefit?

Because the most offensive thing about all this "debt driving spending which is driving more debt" vicious cycle is that there is no math being performed or shown as to how much it actually helped. In other words, the economy itself, without a stimulus package, still has the ability to recover. Some say it would have recovered faster without the stimulus package because the debt load and resulting tax load on the citizens is less. Others say the stimulus helped in a way that the economy alone couldn't do. But nobody is breaking down exactly (or ballpark) how much recovery is from the economy itself versus the stimulus.

For credibility, the supporters of the stimulus and ANY NEW SPENDING must show that math, for all to see. And yes, the liberals who are now in charge are proposing most of the new spending, and cutting nothing from their previous programs. Defense they'd love to cut -- in fact that's the only place they CAN cut, politically. They've been for "less weapons more treaties" for decades. But sometimes the treaties don't work, and the weapons always do, which is why potential adversaries fear the weapons and less so the treaties.

Check this out: http://www.usdebtclock.org/

Both parties should be working to turn that into a national surplus clock.

Global Warming or Global Cooling or Climate change (which happens every season) is a separate issue for the most part, except that all of the global proposals expect America to pay the biggest share and curtail our growth (big surprise) while countries like China, who has trillions to loan to us despite being called a "developing" country, is expected to pay far less, if they feel like it, and if anyone has the guts to enforce that. How you enforce payment on a nuclear-armed country with over a billion people and who is the current leading creditor of the United States is anybody's guess.

In 2015 alone, the estimated interest due - $533 billion - is equal to a third of the federal income taxes expected to be paid that year:eek: :eek:






http://money.cnn.com/2009/11/19/news...rest/index.htm

The typical raging, reactive personal attack response of somebody who throws something out there, with zero backup, and got caught doing it.

Your "millions" - just one - claim doesn't add up via the "simple math". Not even close. Period. I have tried the research, and yeah, there's plenty of info out there aside from the source I quoted, which happens to have all the numbers on one page.

And there's nothing out there to support your contention. You can't even provide it.

And you dare rudely and personally attack and insult me?

Because, you effing moron, there are not more than 65,000 people allotted these visas a year in the past 10 years, upped to 165,000 and 195,00 a couple years - and if we added all that up, with everyone ever allocated one of these visas still in this country and never losing the visa (not true), it STILL wouldn't be close to the "millions" you maintain.

Oh, yeah - and let's not fail to notice how, in the middle of your screaming insults at me, you changed your argument:

Riot says (paraphrasing): Millions on H1 visas? Don't see how based on numbers.

So now you say your "millions" number is based upon ALL possible work visas and extensions, not the specific H1 visa as you intially said, and I questioned.

Who meets the, "stupid, lazy, obnoxious" trifecta here?

I'm talking about here, on Dee Tee.

Geeshus, none of the freekin' above. I'm saying exactly what I said: that the employment rate has historically been calculated in a certain way, everybody knows what the number includes and what it doesn't, and to try and keep saying, "Yes, but" at this point, calculating it a different way at this point in time, simply to make it seem even larger, is silly.

It's large enough calculated the way it has always been, using it to compare historically with other periods of high unemployment, and everybody knows what it does and doesn't include in that context.

Yeah, I do. I think the $800 billion dollars - most of which has NOT yet been spent, but will be over the next two years - has kept us out of a depression - that alone is pretty damn significant.

Oh for god's sake ... if the government were deliberately lying about this web site as you contend (rather than just screwing up), why did they immediately admit they screwed up, point out which postings were screwups, and immediately correct it?

But the important point is why are we continuing to ignore the valid numbers posted?

That's great. No one said that no business wouldnt benefit. But aas it led to greater employment or long term expansion? If so then feel fortunate, you guys hit the stimilus homerun.

Bob
I dont believe the stimilus is worth the money spent because of where the money went and how it was spent not because of who proposed it. If a liberal had come up with an extention of the Bush tax cuts or broader based small-business incentives then i would wholeheartedly get behind it. What was passed had virtually nothing for the jobs creators. And then we scratch our heads when unemployment continues to rise.

I believe there was quite a bit of dissent. I guess i will have to slog through the search engine to bring them up.

:tro:

The only good program they came up with was the purchase of mortgage backed securities for the following reasons:
1) the government can actual recoup or make $ on this program as opposed to government spending
2) Most people that own a home could and have benefited from it.
3) I made $ on it

Hell there was no depression coming and what has been spent hasn't fended it off. My question is that if an $800 billion dollar package was needed immediately then why is so much money spread over the next two (preelection) years? Couldnt be political could it?

There are so many lies, half and untruths about the entire Wall Street bailout that it makes you wonder if anything coming from the govt is truthful anymore. Now AIG's credit default swaps werent a huge problem????? Now we find out those nasty "unregulated" markets werent in any danger of collapse after all. Will we still need hugely expensive and unnecessary regulation for the CDS market now after the truth has been revealed?

Of course we do. More govt is in our best interests afterall. Even if they make up the story as it goes. At least Wall Street's congressional districts arent made up.

I don't have numbers, but I know we are much busier in the fourth quarter of this year and steadily hiring. The only thing that has changed from the first three quarters is that we have several stimulus funded (or stimulus assisted) projects.

Increased profits have nothing to do with the package, they have to do with our performance. Also, the bidding for these projects is ravenous so you have to anticipate that the margins will be slightly lower.

*regrets entering the politics/society room*

What industry, if I may ask?

my accounts related in any way to timber, forestry and construction are way down. the weather here much of the year has had a detrimental effect on timber harvests, which in turn has increased the cost of timber. in a down market, it's better for plywood and osb mills to temporarily halt production then to pay inflated prices due to the impossibility of logging. this will last months as the woods are so wet, and we don't see a change in the flooding for months.

defense on the other hand is growing, i've got several accounts that are growing rapidly--too bad tho that overall we're down. our production accts are suffering, but hospitals and schools are up. but not enough of the latter to offset the former. and then there's the fact that recent tornadoes put a huge hit on one of the universities. it's been one hell of a year down here. any potential road construction projects have been delayed due to the weather, and farmers down here are losing hundreds of millions of dollars due to record rain.

Construction, specifically bridges.

Ah, yes, I see Scavs standing by one in your avatar ? .... :rolleyes: (or yeah, it could be a CD barn ... )

Just wondering, as I know alot of the dollars have gone to trying to make infrastructure safer. '

Zig's take on what she's dealing with is interesting. My profession (vet med) survives on disposable income dollars, but there's quite a bit of hiring and new construction, expansion going on these past couple of months.

The infrastructure is a significant problem and I can't fault Obama pushing for proper funding.

The highways in Kentucky are pretty sorry. Used to have some of the best roads in the country.

really.. My buddy was building bridges all over FL (just got laid off though.. so maybe not the same company!)