Another thing I've seen is people want to make this a Biggie vs Tupac thing. It's not east vs. west here people. I could care less how jacked the grandstand was on Saturday. That's wonderful, they don't give the WS to the Yankees every year because they have the most fans. On the field is where it matters.

Exactly and this is why I posted each horse's races on the other thread. I really hope that anyone who does have a vote takes the time to review and digest each and every race and fully appreciates each horse before casting their vote.

I don't see how Ghostzapper is an apt comparison to either of these. Who else was really worthy of the award in 2004 given how brilliant those four races were? Funny Cide? Roses in May?

:tro:

(except I hate the Yankees)

Especially since the crowd at Saratoga was as loud as I've heard it when Rachel won the Woodward.

WHO CARES?

That would be an issue if she didn't run but once or twice all season. She danced many of the major dances and they happened to be dances that female horses seldom, if ever, and in one case, never had done victoriously. That is a campaign of epic proportions.

Does this really boil down to Rachel potentially having been in the JCGC setting the same ridiculously slow pace that Tizway and QR did over a quagmire of a track and beating up on your boy Summer Bird again? If so then you're grasping at straws as to why she's not the HOY.

This has nothing to do with Zenyatta needing to ship east as some have alluded to here. It has to do with what races she ran in when in her cozy home state. By the time Zenyatta ran in the Clement Hirsch Rachel had already done memorable things. At that point her connections needed to try the Pacific Classic or a similar race against males.

NT

Hopefully:

--The fact that Assmussen is the trainer and Jackson is the owner won't affect the vote

--There is no doubt that there are people who dislike the connections of Rachel and like the connections of Zenyatta

--In a close vote, that could make the difference...How sad.

Its affecting the vote on here.

Like it or not, it could cost her the award, given what Zenyatta did and the recency of it.

Not the same thing but I will mention it anyways...Empire Maker lost the Eclipse Awrd to Funny Cide in 2003, most likely because he only ran once after his Belmon Stakes victory over Funny Cide and it wasnt a win. It was a 2nd in a really weak Jim Dandy field. I think Strong Hope won that race?

Anyways, recency and races in the 2nd half of the year play a huge part in votes. Look no further than the mighty Miesques Approval!

I legitimately can't believe that there are 53 human beings who regularly visit derbytrail.com who think Zenyatta is more deserving of horse of the year honors than Rachel Alexandra.

I legitimately can't believe you would be shocked by any opinion expressed on derbytrail.com. :D

very true and I'm sure a lot of people on the internet have their opinion swayed because of that.

I dont know much about Sherriffs but it was hard not to love him when they were showing him watch the races by the rail and how he was basically tearing up after Z won.

But it doesnt take away from the fact that Rachel had a much more impressive campaign. It would be an insult to horse racing if Rachel doesnt get the award. But I am totally fine with a co-hoy this year.

Just as interesting in my opinion... top turf horse??


Conduit off his BC Turf win?

Pression Passion off his excellent 2nd and top performances all year?

Gio Ponti off his excellent year and 2nd in the "alternate turf" classic?

can you imagine zenyatta on asmussen's dope? might crack a 100 in her two prep races.

Somehow this always comes back to Summer Bird and my motives, why can't you believe me when I say I truly 100% believe that up until Zenyatta crossed the finish line Sat, I would have agreed with all that RA was HOY.

It's this simple I believe Zenyatta was far more impressive in her defining race than RA was in the Woodward her defining race. That to me is enough to give her the nod for HOY. Maybe one should define what HOY means, to me somewhere in that equation there should be a disclaimer that states who the better horse is and from what I saw, one was all out to hold off a mediocre to good horse like Macho Again to another flicking off the best males in training with easy disdain there is no question to me who I think is a better horse and that to me supercedes what happened in 2009 up until this point.

P.S Just a clarification, this is less about winning the Classic than in which the way she did it, losing a pace threat 1 min before the race, coming from dead last with a less then spectacular start, and closing into an average pace against the best males in training and winning with much left in reserve. She is a very worthy choice for HOY when one examines just what she did Saturday in addition to preserving her unblemished career.

When was Personal Ensign HOY?

I consider RA a Midwest/Southern horse as much as an East Coast horse.

This is why, awards are so silly and meaningless. Their extremely biased.

I pointed out why Empire Maker should have lost the Eclipse Award to Funny Cide, but the real reason he lost the award was his connections werent very well liked, especially compared to the Funny Cide feel good story of the century.

Why dont you think Big Brown was more popular? Hmmm, I wonder.

The thing is... its is easy to point out the Classic as Zenyatta's "defining race" because the rest of her races were so average.

The Woodward was NOT Rachels only "defining race"

The KY Oaks was a "defining race" for sure

The Preakness was DEFINATELY a "defining race"

The Haskell was IMO, her most "defining race"

And her awesome Woodward was also a "defining race"

I'm sure you could also throw in her record setting Mother Goose as a "defining race" also.


So if you are going off of each horses "defining race".. its obviously Rachel.

If you want to get into an argument of "defining" races and their respective race flows, I'll take Rachel's Woodward against Zenyatta's Classic. A race where you duel everyone into defeat through fast fractions, no matter who they are, is more impressive than enjoying a cozy inside trip off of an average pace and switching out late to rally.

Compared to a number of races Zenyatta ran in this year she had a perfect trip on Saturday. The pace was steady, she never got stuck in traffic and the early leaders melted down.

I'm really growing weary of the people who are throwing Macho Again and Mine That Bird into this as if their close finishes to Rachel Alexandra are somehow a black mark against hera as anyone who says that is completely ignoring the elements of those respective races.

NT

Fixed that for you.

Seriously, man, why can't you just admit that you're anti-Rachel Alexandra? I know you keep saying that you said she was deserving of an Eclipse for horse of the year before Saturday, but I can't quite seem to find that post. You've been trying to find somebody - anybody - to take the award from her for three months now, and while you've finally found a horse with credentials good enough to potentially do it, the actual horse in question has nothing to do with your argument. I'd bet even money that we'd be seeing the same argument from you if Gio Ponti had won on Saturday instead of Zenyatta.

:tro:

I'm waiting for CSC's pimpage of Careless Jewel for the 3YO filly award to begin.

There are 53 people thus far that also believe Zenyatta has earned HOY so I am hardly alone here, frankly I don't care what people believe, I know am being truthful, I can wake up every morning and stare in the mirror. Again if one stands against RA for HOY, they must be a hater or have some hidden motive. This is getting way too old...

Just you, actually. Nobody else has the anti-Rachel Alexandra track record that you've got going for you.

No, only the people who have been acting like haters for months for no good reason. Those people are haters, not everyone who thinks Zenyatta should get it. The hidden motive, or at least the most apparent hidden motive...is being a hater.

Important difference.

Do you know how easy it is to make up another account and vote multiple times? I call for all Zenyatta voters to own up and let us know who you are. Or Steve can go in and take a look and see how many people voted yet have no posts on the board.

Gimme a break, you would advocate pro-censorship. I dare anyone to find one post of mine that ever said Rachel was not a good horse.

Just 1, until then just zip the inquisition like convo.

It would be a travesty, yes a travesty, if Rachel didn't get it.

The Champ Has To Step Up
 

Zennatta Step up and race against the best in the world!
She beat grd.1 or grp.1 horses from 6 or 7 country's!
She's undeafeated and 14 for 14!
Rachel had the chance to run against the boy's in the derby and chose the Oaks,She didn't run in the travers and no matter the surfase she chose not to run at the Breeders cup!

Didnt somebody make this same idiotic comment yesterday?? Can we say TROLL!!!

6 or 7 countries?

Agreed. The Woodward was the race for her. The way the race shaped up, she had a legit shot at running down Rachel.

I voted for Zenyatta and wonder how many people voted against her just because they hate poly. The Classic was open to Rachel and no doubt was a far tougher field than the Woodward. Seeing Zen wait for Twice Over to clear and then going outside to catch Gio does it for me. That said I'd fully support co-HOY's.

Ghosts in here padding the Zenyatta stats no doubt.

a travesty, a sham, a mockery....it's a traveshamockery!

lol
she ran vs colts three different times. but she still gets grief for what she didn't do. hilarious.

I've been looking through a few of CSC's older posts on this subject, and there are certainly some doozies. His tune has certainly changed since this one from 9/24/09:

I brought this up last month, Summer Bird is the only horse that could knock off RA for HOY, though admittidely it is remote with voters most likely swooning at her this yr. If he can win the JCGC convincingly, and then win the BC convincingly he may sway some votes away from her, in essence it's not enough that he wins these 2 races but do so in an Arazi like fashion.

Zenyatta has zero chance at HOY with her 09 campaign.

Not really illustrative of the anti-Rachel Alexandra bias, but it's telling that six weeks ago, Zenyatta had "zero chance" and now she's his rock-solid choice for horse of the year.

This thread is also a fun one. You can substitute Zenyatta for Summer Bird in nearly every case and it's relatively the same argument:

http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/sho...r+bird+trainer

On a complete side note, did anybody notice Jerry Bailey use the word "crossfire" in describing Mastercraftsman's awful move down the stretch on Saturday?

its funny that people are saying running in the Woodward instead of the Travers is a knock on Rachel. I mean.. she had already kicked the 3yo colts butts in the Preakness and Haskell.. I guess two times isnt enough? Had to chicken out and take on open company! :eek:

This was the crux of Jerry Bailey's argument about seven seconds after the Classic on Saturday. Zenyatta is clearly the "establishment" candidate in that regard.