Wonder how they compare on the number of Gr 1 winners and potential Eclipse winners defeated during the year as a whole?

:tro:

Rachel Alexandra was the best choice for HOY prior to the running of The Classic, where incidentally most people in horseracing know when championships are decided, leaving room for extraordinary performances. I wouldn't say RA lost HOY today but rather Zenyatta earned it. What she did today was the most significant event of any race this decade.

Zenyatta's performance was awesome, but she beat a turf field today. Once you factor out MTB and Summer Bird from the equation, Zenya's opponents in the Classic had ZERO Grade 1 wins on dirt and TWO Grade 1 wins on artificial surfaces this year. What Zenyatta beat was basically the same type of field that would assemble if the BC had a 10 furlong turf race.

Who does Zenyatta have to beat to get her repsect? Macho Again??
She won fair and square and she did not toil or struggle in victory. She had more than enough in the tank after crossing the finish line. Please give credit where and when its due.

RA and their connections know where zenyatta is and if they like to settle it on the track then let it be.

Leaving California would have been nice. But I suppose racing all of four times until today and beating up on the likes of Lethal Heat, Briecat and Anabaa's Creation was just too taxing.

If Zenyatta is only a nose better than Anabaas Creation, as was almost a punchline to a joke around here two months ago, how much would she have beaten Gio Ponti by? Just saying.

What a treat to see the Classic at Santa Anita today.

Seems like the crowd swelled with lots of late arrivals showing up to see the Classic and they were not disappointed. When Zenyatta started her stretch kick the crowd went nuts. That was the most electric race I have witnessed since seeing J O Tobin beat the then undefeated Seattle Slew at Hollywood Park back in 1977.

I go to the races about 4-5 a year and this is the fourth time I've seen Zenyatta. As I watched my TEVO'd recording of the race, this evening, I am even more amazed at Zenyatta's victory.

Horse of the Year?

That award would be terrific but rather anticlimatic to a perfect career and a stirring victory!

You forgot to mention Life is Sweet in that list. Sherriffs should have had the Classic exacta instead of the Classic/Classic double.

The question shouldn't have been "should Zenyatta be in the Ladies Classic?"
The question should have been "should Sherriff's second-stringer, Life is Sweet be in the Classic?"

I pose the same question to RA. Why is she staying in the east coast??
Fact is Zenyatta stepped up and ran and WON in the biggest race of the year and RA connections opted to stay put and now what was a sure HOY for RA is now totally up for grabs between them.

Zenyatta is a true 10-11 furlong horse and what you describe as near win against Lethal Heat, and Briecat etc is actually Zenyatta barely going full stride to win those races. If those F&M races she won this year were run at 10 furlongs then Zenyatta wins by 5 plus lengths.

I love the internet..

RA did not stay on the East Coast. She dominated horses at Fair Grounds, Oaklawn Park, and Churchill Downs. While RA was racing in Arkansas, Louisiana, Kentucky, Maryland, and New York, Zenyatta left the comfort of LA to travel 120 miles down the road to San Diego.

Of the 19 top Beyers this years for dirt races over a mile, RA owns 5 of them. You can't find Zenyatta on this list with a searchlight.

Zenyatta's late rally was impressive, but then again, most turf races end in such fashion. No wonder turfers Gio Ponti and Twice Over felt right at home.

RA is a dirt horse....

the synthetics would eat her speed and throw her to the back like Careless Jewel, D Funnybone, and other dirt horses who couldn't cut it on this surface.

It's not a fair comparison in my opinion. I once suggested there should be a separate dirt and synthetics eclipse award. I don't think people here agreed with me.

Dirt races have always been the standard before synthetics came along. It's only when there wasn't a clear cut dirt champion that a turf horse or female or 2 year old got HOY.

So why shouldn't dirt races take preference over synthetic races as well?

She probably would have finished second in the Classic ahead of all those turf horses.

RA is a nice little filly. We all know what Z does to nice little fillies....

As they say: Great horses do not need to take thier track with them.

Careless Jewel already won on synthetics before but lost because of the knucklehead jockey who thought he was on Secratariat and went :23 :45 and 1:09. D'funnybone had no published workout nor raced on synthetics I agree but he also never raced two turns nor does his pedigree scream out route. Maybe that had something to do with his demise.

Some also suggest Goldikova.

Three great horses--three separate surfaces:zz:

What we have is two sets of rules ala Major League Baseball. One league has the DH the other does not. They both play with a different set of rules. It's frustrating for a baseball fan and a horse player who has to see and deal with different track surfaces. Whoever is HOY is beside the point, for the good of the game (baseball too) let's have one set of rules and surfaces. The BC has brought the synthetics debate front and center - it can only hurt the horse racing industry.

I'm sorry, but I can't see awarding a horse who ran a Kip Deville-like schedule and never once left her home state to run with Horse of the Year honors. Summer Bird is still more deserving than she, even after his performance yesterday.

This.

They say NASCAR is fun, I would choose Drag racing.

I dont care how many times she raced this year or how many different tracks. I care that on the biggest day in the sport in front of the whole world she showed how GREAT she is. She beat the three year old colt of the year, the derby winner, the turf male of the year, and a couple of other multiple group 1 winners in convincing fashion.

RACHEL:
Martha Washington
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBxJvzktxrw

Fair Grounds Oaks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlY6N...eature=related ("with a win of quality and class" - brilliant call!)

Fantasy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQuHFpHMyM8

Kentucky Oaks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRGvb...eature=related

Preakness
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRbF1...eature=related

Mother Goose
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TJTn...eature=related

Haskell
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rS1EG...eature=related

Woodward
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrTMp...eature=related

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ZENYATTA:

Milady
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5ff9G2fv8c

Vanity
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTeV9Wb2OWo

Clement Hirsch
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTcTi...eature=related

Ladies Secret
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nb68fbcFp30

Classic
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHtAlmq7tK8

On the subject of good fillies, hindsight is a wonderful thing however I would have loved to have seen Diamondrella in the Mile, her sprint effort down the hill was an abysmal waste of time.

any of us who complain that the bc has taken too much emphasis off the rest of the years racing is hoping your take on this isn't a widely held opinion. one race does not a year make.

but, truth be told, it doesn't matter to me who gets hoy. it's not like you can bet on it and get a return. but it does matter to racing how a day like yesterday can impact the entire year, and the thought processes in future years by owners and trainers. if we want top notch racing throughout the year, then you can't put this much emphasis on one day, regardless of the title of the program.

just curious ...has Rachel ever raced, let alone won on the synthetic? If not then Zenyatta wins 2-1 in the "Graded Stakes Wins On Different Surfaces Between the 2 Best Fillies Of The Year"...Is there an Eclipse for that?.....Let's shorten it to the "GSWDFB2BFOY" Award.

Scary thought...someone is drawing up the plans for one right now. I hate awards and All Star games.

HALL OF FAMES - Love 'em - GOOD !

AWARDS ....Don't really care either way - N N N Not SO GOOD. (unless you win one yourself...then it's the best, man...really cool)

yes, at two when she ran at keeneland.

I was on the Rachel side of the Rachel vs. Zenyatta (who is the better horse) issue. However, after what I saw yesterday, I can honestly say there is no way to decipher which horse would win matched up. But horse of the year, which is an award based on what a horse did this year, should go to Rachel. I honestly believe that if it were a forethought and ambition from the beginning, Rachel could have won the triple crown. And I also believe Zenyatta can beat Rachel in the context of a normal race at classic distance with the main discrepancy obviously being the surface. But when you cancel the woulda/coulda/shouldas, Rachel wins HOY>:tro:

How many were running on their best surface?

The fact that the turf male of the year finished second ahead of the good natural dirt horses is pretty telling, IMO, particularly considering Gio Ponti's one other synthetic try was pretty mediocre.

I thought sending Summer Bird to the Classic and not to a race like the Clark was a huge mistake before yesterday.

UNDEFEATED CHAMP. Won championship race going away. Didn't say "I can't beat those horses at that distance on that surface - so I'm staying home."
HOY - no brainer!

The surface debate is immaterial to me, you play the cards dealt to you, next year they are holding the BC at Chuchill Downs and the synth horses will supposedly be at a disadvantage. Supposing there is a Poly horse that builds a RA type resume and coasts to perhaps a HOY, will there be any dissentions also? There just seems to be so much of an anti-bias here that synth horses are inferior to dirt horses, I must be missing something because I don't get it?

Maybe because dirt is a natural surface that has been used to measure which horse was the best for thousands of years?

You don't have dirt specialists like you do synth specialists.

I think synth racing is more interesting from a betting perspective (because, for instance, people made Pyro 5-1 yesterday), but it allows horses who are nothing special on dirt to pass their more talented rivals when those rivals can't handle the fake stuff.

I don't think Zenyatta falls into the category of synth specialist, though.

(I realize how played out this whole argument is. . . )

Is it time they add a 3rd catagory for eclispe awards? Best Synth horse...Given the hand all horses were dealt this yr I would be hard pressed to blame Sheriff's/Moss for the campaign they had drawn for Z with especially the way it played out yesterday, if the BC was held at CD they may have chosen a more ambitious campaign, they did go in the Classic rather than the Ladies Classic, it seems not many have given them credit for this also. They could have gone the Peppers Pride route but they put up something yesterday.

Agreed this argument has been played out and will be played out again no doubt, but regardless thank you for the thoughtful response.

There was no way they could go to the Ladies' Classic. . . wasn't a very hard decision.

Just like running RA in the Woodward instead of the Travers was a no-brainer.

How do they stack up on Thorograph numbers. As I posted earlier, RA smoked Z on the Beyers.

Although I respect Jerry Bailey and think he does a great job on TV, I thought he was way off when he said Rachel and co. ducked the tougher spot when they chose the Woodward over the Travers shortly after the Classic.

Synthetic Beyers are normally lower than dirt #'s. Hard to do a comparison that way.

That was the beauty of it - it LOOKED like a harder spot, but Summer Bird and Quality Road were/are superior to anyone running in the Travers. Even if they were ducking it would be hard to "prove" - whatever that means.

Macho Again and co. are obviously better than Anabaa's Creation, etc. though.