considering how many times biancone has had issues, and how many jurisdictions don't welcome him, i don't agree that he should be able to train away. how many times does someone get to do their time only to come back and do it all again-til they get caught again?

as for the logic that others do drugs, so why get on biancone...when you catch them, you ban them. the more you catch and kick out, the less you have doing the same. hell, are the cops supposed to quit arresting people because there are others breaking the law?

The rules are the rules, law is the law. He was out of the game for 1 year. He lost a lot of money and top horses. The one's I can remember off the top of my head.... Lady Of Venice, Slews Tiznow, and Ball Four. There are many many more. He did the time for his crime, and I embrace him being back.

i'm well aware of the horses he had, and the length of the suspension. my contention is that the length of his suspension wasn't long enough, and that there should be more serious consequences for rules violations such as having cobra venom.
the vet got several years, four or five-biancone should have gotten the same, or even longer, considering his history. he's a repeat offender.a year is a joke, especially considering what they were caught with. and give me a break about 'maybe they weren't using it'. anyone thinking someone is going to own and possess something like that, but not really use it is beyond naive.


the racing boards really need to have more stringent rules and tougher punishments when someone is a multiple offender. perhaps we should also extend our reciprocity from north america to world wide, then clowns like biancone wouldn't be able to train here.

he was gone a year, did anyone notice anything lacking due to his absence?

So how do you feel about Asmussen,Dutrow,Pletcher,and the rest of the crew?All of them also have multiple violations in their past,and so they should be gone also,right?Why single out Biancone?

i'm not singling biancone. i've never made a secret of my disdain for the assman, and am certainly no fan of dutrows. i've been an avid supporter of strict rules with real punishment for these violators. the sport doesn't need them.

also, i'll remind you that the thread is about biancone, which is why i wrote about biancone. has nothing to do with singling him out-he's certainly not a victim at all.

I thought a year was a bit excessive, but who am I? Its not just the year, its the horses and the MONEY HE LOST. I dont know how you can aruge it was not enough, they found the venom in his barn, no one can prove he administered it to any of his horses.

I dont have a list of positives or anything, and I know this thread is about PB, but I think the other trainers mentioned are a bit worst then him.

again, why would he possess it if he wasn't using it? hey, maybe the jock up on cocaine charges should use that kind of defense...seriously, what the hell would you possess an illegal substance for, and take that kind of risk for, without using it? you really, really think he wasn't actually using it?! hilarious. besides, he knows the rules, and chose to break them. i couldn't care less if it cost him millions-he made that choice.

varying degrees of bad is still bad. biancone deserves derision, not sympathy. yet owners still send him their stock-that ought to tell you just how much they care about their horses.

I understand it was wrong, and he was more then likely administering to the horses, but he did the time. Thats all I'm saying.

yes, i know he did the time. doesn't make him a good person, or trainer, or someone i want to see returning to the sport.

So Dutrow, Assmussen and anyone else with any positive should not be allowed to train?
Honestly, I really dont even care about this. I liked him a lot before he went, I cought on to him and Julian before a lot of people did and I made a lot of money a few Keenland meets back. I focus on the horses and the handicapping, I really dont care either way, maybe I am biased because I do like Patrick.

Well,whether you like it or not,he's back.

i think he is ofer at del mar........could be wrong.

many times over offenders should not be allowed back time and again. it's ridiculous.

i figured that was the point of the title of this thread. and no, i don't like it. and i don't get why some don't care, and i don't get why owners give their horses to jokes like him when there are others who don't stockpile illegal and dangerous crap like cobra venom.

Apparently, you don't care about the other horseman who LOST MONEY when he was engaging in his less than reputable practices.

They can't prove he adminstered to the horses because they don't have a test for it. Why do you think he had it in the first place? You're not that naive, are you?

You don't care whether the sport is clean or not, or whether the lives of horses and riders are put in jeopardy, as long as you are able to cash your wager?

I'm sorry, but yes. I care about the big race days, Saratoga and BC day. I care about my bankroll, not this.

[quote=Antitrust32]I don't think anyone who has trained at this level for as many years as Biancone would intentionally do what you are suggesting, if so why does this guy continue to get very good stock after so many years. Surely all of these owner's who turn over horses to him can't be this dumb. Whether it's cobra venom or not, horses run with injuries. It happens all the time in this game, are these Trainer's equally responsible for running unsound horses? To equate cobra venom to intentional trying to harm a horse is a distortion in my opinion, I don't condone it's usage but I do think this is abit of a witchhunt we have here from what I have observed on this thread. I understand the passion horses can provoke, whoever follows this game cannot admire these animals. I don't believe for one moment that any Trainer at the highest levels would intentional try to harm one of their own animals, they may try to enhance a performance but that is a very different distinction.

[quote=CSC]I don't think anyone said that he was intentionally trying to harm the horse. What has been said is, that by using cobra venom on his horses, he illustrated wanton disregard for the health and well-being of the riders and the horses.

Some owners care more about winning than winning honestly. That's why he got the horses. Just win, baby!

Why is it MY business, or that of any bettor, whether the game is clean or not?
When the different tracks figure out how to COMPLETELY clean up the game, then maybe some of this will have meaning to me. When there are so many cheating out there, I don't think it's very productive to focus on a single individual. There are worse things happening in the world than scumbags hurting horses.

And, while we're at it, why is NYRA any better than any of these cheats? Don't they put riders and horses in jeopardy when they allow HERDING in their races? How about all the times that a jock comes in on the turn, rather than keeping a straight path and pinches the jock to his inside on the rail? Is that dangerous? What exactly is NYRA (or any of the other tracks) doing about this? Clearly, SQUAT. I've watched Castellano be given carte blanche the past few years when it comes to herding. THIS is a much more dangerous issue than the Biancone thing, IMO. And NYRA, IMO, through its stewards is acting every bit a reprehensibly as Biancone ever did.

This is all BS. The game itself is based on CHEATING. All the trainers are looking for an edge. All the tracks are as well. When they soup their tracks up on big days so that they get fast times, is that cheating? Safety sacrificed for speed? How about all those BIASES they create? Is that cheating? How about when the allow their WHALES to past post or give them rebates? Is that fair?

What makes this game the challenge of a lifetime is the chance to win IN SPITE of all the unfairness going on in it.

[quote=parsixfarms]I think you said it, riders that rode for him and his kind(The Dutrow's and Asmussen's)know what they are riding, and they share the same responsibilty on what happens on the track. It's not like it's a dirty little secret what is going on in this game, however if one of these riders opts out there will be a lineup of others that want on this train. Only the horse has no say, however what is better being a claimer at CT or an allowance horse under the Evil empire. The answers are not as simple as they should be.

All change is incremental. Your point's like saying that, until we can round up all the criminals at once, we shouldn't enforce any laws. Or because someone is committing murder, we should no longer prosecute theft.

Aside from the inherent handicapping conundrums created by today's supertrainers (how do you quantify how much new trainer "X" will move a recent acquisition up), the perception problem created by having an unclean sport serves to keep away (or more importantly, drive away) potential owners and bettors. Of course, if you don't care about having five and six horse fields, I guess that's not a problem. For most of the rest of us, that is a problem.

[quote=CSC]I don't fundamentally disagree with this statement, but what about the other riders in the race who are not on his horses?

Fats, what exactly is herding?

"We are in an sporting era where if you aren't being ACCUSED of cheating, you really aren't doing all that good."

sure, if you want to be hyper-logical and fair beyond the standards of due diligence, Biancone has recieved extra attention because of the dramatic nature of the substance with which he was caught.

Still, a strong commissioning body would have done well to issue Biancone "the Black Spot", a lifetime ban from the sport, as much for the perception of his acts as for his transgressions. For it is the The perception here that makes the impact.

To continue reading this article you must be an Insider:rolleyes:

A lifetime ban is crazy. Simply unfair.

Why? If a doctor committed malpractice on several occasions, he'd probably lose his license to practice medicine. If a lawyer committed several serious ethical violations, he'd probably lose his license to practice law. Given his long and sordid track record, why shouldn't Biancone (and there are others that fit in here, just so we're not accused of unfairly focusing on one guy) lose his license to train race horses?

You cant compare the examples your giving. I know a lot of people on this site wont like it, but like FatMan said, there are a alot worst things then treating horses bad. PB did his time, if they were going to keep him out of the game, they would have to keep Dutrow, Pletcher, Mullins and every other trainer who has ever had a positive. They gave him a year, he lost TONS of money and top top horses. I think he did his time.

fairness wasn't being debated, only the appropriate measure to quell an ugly perception by a fictional commissioning body.

I only care about an edge. If there's a stickout in a race, chances are it has more of a chance in a smaller than a larger field. Most of the people here have bigger balls than me. You all want to take on bigger challenges. So, you FORCE action. You play difficult races, that I wouldn't touch, because they're part of a sequence you're playing. In most cases, the focus is on a single track and that day's card. I look at 6,7,8, whatever, tracks a day and try to get the best plays from them. This is races where I have an edge. I'm not looking to make scores that will make my year but rather to play (and win) consistently and to my strengths. Why, then, would I particularly care if the fields are small or large, as long as I'm winning?

Hope this clears up the small fields issue, once and for all.

Will you please explain herding.

I wish I had that type of restraint.

An intentional attempt to not run in a straight path in the lane in order to take the path of another horse and prevent it from challenging. In other words, gaining an UNFAIR advantage.

I was shocked that the NYRA stewards took a horse down for drifting the other day. It was so mild compared to some of the blatant and dangerous herding by Castellano over the past few years, that I had to do a double take and make sure I was watching NYRA racing.

Castellano on the east coast and Chantal on the west coast (when she rides there) are presently the top herders in the game. Interestingly, however, she does very little herding up at WO. It's all about the stewards, after all.

If someone can get a picture of that I'll have a new avatar.

I fail to see how the privilege (not a right) to train horses is different from the privilege to practice other professions; and yes, when doctors and lawyers lose their licenses, they lose TONS of money, but that's part of the price paid for their wrongful conduct. The fear of losing that money is what deters others from engaging in such behavior. Let me ask this question, in your view, is there any conduct in which a trainer could engage that would justify losing his or her license?

I'm certainly not suggesting that every trainer that ever had a positive should lose his license; mistakes do happen. When penalties are adjuducated, there has to be a sense of context, perspective and progressive discipline. IMO, a serial cheater such as Biancone who has shown blatant disregard for the rules of the sport and the welfare of horse and rider has no business having a license to train horses. Based on their track records, you could reasonably argue that Dutrow, Asmussen and Mullins, each of whom has a long track record of failing to play by the rules, fall into the same category (but that's a conversation for another day). The individual with one relatively minor positive is not what we are talking about here.

:tro: :tro:

It's when the horses get so close together that he can't read their numbers on the Trakus screen.

I dont understand why he was allowed a green card in the first place considering his troubled history before relocating here. You can bet your ass if I went to France after being ruled off here and got a years suspension I would have been rightful deported.