Originally Posted by eajinabi

You tell me this:

Prior to the Apple Blossom, Zenyatta was 3 for 3 which included a MSW, ALWX1 and a 150k G2. Do you think the Zenyatta team felt they had the best horse at that point? No, so they followed Ginger Punch to Oaklawn to prove that they did and won convincingly. After the oaklawn win, they stayed in So. Cal and we all know what damage they did since. This year, there is no need to chase anyone, anywhere to prove anything.

Originally Posted by eajinabi

You tell me this:

Prior to the Apple Blossom, Zenyatta was 3 for 3 which included a MSW, ALWX1 and a 150k G2. Do you think the Zenyatta team felt they had the best horse at that point? No, so they followed Ginger Punch to Oaklawn to prove that they did and won convincingly. After the oaklawn win, they stayed in So. Cal and we all know what damage they did since. This year, there is no need to chase anyone, anywhere to prove anything.

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

I'd say there's something to prove, considering she beats up on the same lousy horses on the tires all year long. Beating Ginger Punch in a five-horse field doesn't really do it for me. You really think she's done all there is for a mare to do? I don't.

Originally Posted by eajinabi

Undefetaed 10 for 10, 8 Graded stakes wins of 4 were G1
I am not sure what else you want her to do? Unless you want them to ship to Europe or Japan. She beat all those that showed up and RA connections know where to find her. Breeders Cup is the best venue for RA and Zenyatta to meet. Anywhere else would be another 5 horse field in a phony race at a phony track. And even if Zenyatta wins, you still wont be satisfied.

Originally Posted by eajinabi

Undefetaed 10 for 10, 8 Graded stakes wins of 4 were G1
I am not sure what else you want her to do? Unless you want them to ship to Europe or Japan. She beat all those that showed up and RA connections know where to find her. Breeders Cup is the best venue for RA and Zenyatta to meet. Anywhere else would be another 5 horse field in a phony race at a phony track. And even if Zenyatta wins, you still wont be satisfied.

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Clearly if I want her to run outside of California for once, that means I want her to go to Europe or Japan.

RA knows where to find her: in Zenyatta's backyard, on a surface she's never tried, after a cross-country ship. Sounds like a real level playing field.

Like it or not, Rachel already has more significant accomplishments than Zenyatta. If anything, she has less to prove.

Originally Posted by eajinabi

So I take it that RA is not even considering the Breeders Cup? I guess they will stick on the east coast and run against also-rans.

Originally Posted by eajinabi

So I take it that RA is not even considering the Breeders Cup? I guess they will stick on the east coast and run against also-rans.

Originally Posted by Danzig

jackson doesn't like the synthetics, he's been pretty vocal about that. but he ran curlin out there and said it's possible rachel will run as well...but he also said if she came out for the bc, it would be for the classic. so, at this point a match up between the two doesn't look like a possibility.

Originally Posted by eajinabi

RA faced the boys and beat them. This years best horse is probably not the male version. Zenyatta is arguably the best older horse Male or female this year and RA is the best 3 yo male or female so far. The handicap male divison looks weaker than the 3 yo so running RA in the BC classic is a step down in my opinion.

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

I don't even know what this means, but I'd say Zenyatta has been running against "also-rans" a lot more than Rachel has.

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

I don't even know what this means, but I'd say Zenyatta has been running against "also-rans" a lot more than Rachel has.

Originally Posted by Danzig

i like the 'other than the preakness' part...come on, you can't toss out the best race she ran, vs the best competition. lol
other than that mrs. lincoln, how was the play?

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Nailed it. I love that he excludes the Preakness, but decides to include Zenyatta's BC Girlies Classic win where she beat Music Note and Cocoa Beach (neither are anything great, by the way) on surfaces they had never run on. There's nothing like cherry picking to prove points.

The point is: Rachel has already won a more significant race than Zenyatta ever will. She's also won on five different racetracks already. Rachel takes her game with her, while Zenyatta's connections and supporters, lamely, think for some reason that everyone should have to come to her.

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

You guys are putting way to much stock into a three year old restricted race against MTB and Musket Man.

Its a very nice win but I usually want to see how they do against older horses. How many three year olds have won the BC Classic or the Distaff? Its not many and some of those years the older horses were very thin.

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

You guys are putting way to much stock into a three year old restricted race against MTB and Musket Man.

Its a very nice win but I usually want to see how they do against older horses. How many three year olds have won the BC Classic or the Distaff? Its not many and some of those years the older horses were very thin.

Originally Posted by Danzig

it's may. i don't think too many are making rachel out to be the best ever, altho some are trying. thing is tho, it is just may, so a bit early these days to start putting a 3 yo vs older. rachel has done something most don't do anymore, which is a shame. perhaps that's why people are expressing frustration with zenyattas camp; we want her to branch out as well.

Originally Posted by eajinabi

I dont see the point of Zenyatta shipping elswhere when their prize is on the BC at SA. If RA is going to run in the BC Classic then wouldnt it be nice if she gets a synthetic prep. If not she will always have the "never ran on synthetic" excuse if she loses in the BC this year.

Originally Posted by Danzig

she ran/won at kee last year.

Originally Posted by eajinabi

Well there wont be an excuse if she loses then

Originally Posted by Danzig

you ought to know by now that there's ALWAYS an excuse. now...whether it's a good excuse, or a believable one is another story.

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

many people, including some writers are doing just that.

I have learned to live with disappointment in this game, if it happens it happens. None of the boys in california can run with Zenyatta which is the most disappointing to me.

Originally Posted by letswastemoney

The best way to see who is really better......make a last minute decision to move the BC to Churchill this year!!!!

which will never happen but....oh well

Zenyatta is probably better on synth...and RA is probably better on dirt. But RA is going in the Classic if she comes, so we'll never know either for sure

Originally Posted by eajinabi

Zenyatta ran her best race on dirt at Oaklawn

Originally Posted by Coach Pants

Shireffs and Moss talked it over already and said no.

Originally Posted by letswastemoney

One could argue Ginger Punch just threw in a clunker that day. Do you think Ginger Punch had her best in that race? I mean Brownie Points beat her....

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

Is that what your arguing?

Did she throw in a clunker later in the year as well?

Originally Posted by Danzig

she ran/won at kee last year.

Originally Posted by eajinabi

RA faced the boys and beat them. This years best horse is probably not the male version. Zenyatta is arguably the best older horse Male or female this year and RA is the best 3 yo male or female so far. The handicap male divison looks weaker than the 3 yo so running RA in the BC classic is a step down in my opinion.

Originally Posted by tector

Well, there would be nothing to stop Zenyatta from showing up there as well, would there?

Oh, I forgot--quack quack.

BTW, if I am rolling the dice on a bizarre surface, why WOULDN'T I run for the much bigger purse, just in case my filly can handle it?

The Zenyatta projected campaign is b-o-r-i-n-g. If somebody wants to be boring with their horse, that's their business. Just don't expect me to give a damn.

Originally Posted by eajinabi

Is she running for political office? Sherrifs/Moss doesnt take a public poll to see where Zenyatta should run next.

Originally Posted by Danzig

no, the best compromise would be a meeting in the fall at saratoga. it's not as tho the mosses never ship-it wouldn't be outrageous to expect them to ship a horse this year that they shipped last year, knowing full well that the bc was in fact in the same location as it will be this fall. i think their reasoning rings hollow. what i really think it is, is that they feel due to rachels running style she would most likely have the upper hand in a meeting. they also probably recognize that HOY will be out of their grasp unless they also chose to face the boys as well, so what would be the point in risking a defeat? may as well try to go out undefeated with their mare. she obviously likes it where she is-and they can certainly dare jackson to come west.

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Clearly if I want her to run outside of California for once, that means I want her to go to Europe or Japan.

RA knows where to find her: in Zenyatta's backyard, on a surface she's never tried, after a cross-country ship. Sounds like a real level playing field.

Like it or not, Rachel already has more significant accomplishments than Zenyatta. If anything, she has less to prove.