Derby Trail Forums
Page 2 of 3 < 1 2 3 >
Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page

Derby Trail Forums (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/index.php)
-   Triple Crown Topics/Archive.. (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=9)
-   -   Dear Dubai apologists... (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29444)

Cannon Shell 05-05-2009 08:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danzig
what if it was two starts ago? three? just seems that people don't go over a horse with a fine toothed comb til they lose. war emblem ran with chips, so did mineshaft. didn't rachel not vet out because of a chip?

i just think it's interesting they say they don't know when it occured-so how do you know when it had an affect?
Obviously it didn't show outward effects till afterwards so it would be logical to assume it happened in the race. Surely you understand that a chip can vary in seriousness depending on location, size, shape, etc.

Danzig 05-05-2009 08:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
Not sure why people who dont actually spend any money buying horses or trying to win races feel the need to knock those that do regardless of the amount of money spent. I doubt that Sheik Mo loses any sleep over not winning the Derby or that you find amusement in it. As proven again this year it is sometimes a fluky race that produces strange results.

you're going to be accused of being a sycophant and apologist shortly.

Danzig 05-05-2009 08:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
Obviously it didn't show outward effects till afterwards so it would be logical to assume it happened in the race. Surely you understand that a chip can vary in seriousness depending on location, size, shape, etc.

yes, i know. i found their wordplay more interesting than anything i suppose.

Cannon Shell 05-05-2009 08:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danzig
you're going to be accused of being a sycophant and apologist shortly.
I bet Regal Ransom. Dummy may also be appropriate.

Cannon Shell 05-05-2009 08:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danzig
yes, i know. i found their wordplay more interesting than anything i suppose.
As bad as some of the others ran I am surprised he is the only one injured coming out of the race.

Danzig 05-05-2009 08:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
As bad as some of the others ran I am surprised he is the only one injured coming out of the race.
a lot of injuries to peoples' pride...

dunkirk and friesan fire supposedly both had hoof injuries, scrapes, etc. but thankfully nothing too bad. looks like the only possible retirement coming up would be i want revenge. hopefully they'll give him time, and he comes back same as before.

Danzig 05-05-2009 08:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
I bet Regal Ransom. Dummy may also be appropriate.

i thought his chances were improved when i saw it had rained, but that track was a mess.

Cannon Shell 05-05-2009 08:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danzig
a lot of injuries to peoples' pride...

dunkirk and friesan fire supposedly both had hoof injuries, scrapes, etc. but thankfully nothing too bad. looks like the only possible retirement coming up would be i want revenge. hopefully they'll give him time, and he comes back same as before.
Fresian Fire and Dunkirk didn't look great going in and any supposed injuries they have you can take with a grain of salt. I hope I want revenge has a nice life at stud in New Mexico.

Cannon Shell 05-05-2009 08:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danzig
i thought his chances were improved when i saw it had rained, but that track was a mess.
As soon i as bet him his chances dropped dramatically

Danzig 05-05-2009 08:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
Fresian Fire and Dunkirk didn't look great going in and any supposed injuries they have you can take with a grain of salt. I hope I want revenge has a nice life at stud in New Mexico.
it's funny tho that all those folks giving me crap for saying dunkirk shouldn't go have left me alone since saturday.
but i'm pretty much waiting for all of them to run again before i think they're all meant to stand stud in new mexico.

Danzig 05-05-2009 08:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHoss9698
:rolleyes:
what?

Cannon Shell 05-05-2009 08:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danzig
it's funny tho that all those folks giving me crap for saying dunkirk shouldn't go have left me alone since saturday.
but i'm pretty much waiting for all of them to run again before i think they're all meant to stand stud in new mexico.
You will be waiting a long time for I Want Revenge to run again

Cannon Shell 05-05-2009 08:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cardus
A) The need to knock someone spending what is considered to be an exorbitant amount of money (relatively) on yearlings, two-year-olds in training, and on purchases of stylish two-year-old maiden winners is the "Yankees Syndrome," and as a baseball fan, you know what I mean. To me, if Godolphin merely outlasts others at the sales -- and overwhelms those with two-year-olds maiden winners unable to resist, which, according to here, is the entirety of the horse-owning world -- then it is bound to win the Derby sometime, and the accomplishment is diminished.

B) If Shake Mo doesn't lose sleep over not winning the Derby, then he has done a tremendous job of conning the world-wide racing media into believing that he is a horseman of the finest order. If that is not the case, then perhaps the world-wide racing media has engaged in a collective act of journalistic license. For years now, I have read that the Derby and the Melbourne Cup have been Shake Mo's obsession as an owner.

C) I am not a fan of the Godolphin crowd for multiple reasons, but I do not see it as unreasonable for those to jump on it for the amount of money that it has spent in pursuit of the Derby. If only those who spend even remotely similar amounts of money than that of Godolphin could comment on its spending to win a Derby.. well, then no one could comment.
A) Winning the Derby cant be diminished unless they buy all the starters (which isnt that impossible)
B) While the horseracing media isnt that hard to fool I would think that if Sheik Mo was THAT determined to simply win the Derby he wouldnt shuffle all the horses off to Dubai every winter.
C) And no one said that a person has to spend as much as Godolphin but to simply buy a horse to see how hard it is to win any race let alone the Derby. I am no great fan of the Arabs or their methods (unless I had a good one to sell) but to simply criticize because they spent a lot of money is a bit myopic. That money they spend goes a long ways to keep a lot of bills paid and people s heads above water.

Danzig 05-05-2009 08:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHoss9698
The entire forum was wrong about the Derby, including you.

yeah, i didn't pick the winner, but my pick hit the board. but yeah, i can see why, since i didn't have the winner, i can't make a comment about dunkirk. gotcha

Linny 05-05-2009 09:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cardus
B) If Shake Mo doesn't lose sleep over not winning the Derby, then he has done a tremendous job of conning the world-wide racing media into believing that he is a horseman of the finest order. If that is not the case, then perhaps the world-wide racing media has engaged in a collective act of journalistic license. For years now, I have read that the Derby and the Melbourne Cup have been Shake Mo's obsession as an owner.
The US writers that cover such things have told you (and all of us) that Sh. Mo is obsessed with winning the Derby but it is probably not true. Does he want to win it? Yes. Is it what he lives and breathes for? NO!

The Indomitable DrugS 05-05-2009 09:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Linny
The US writers that cover such things have told you (and all of us) that Indian Charlie is obsessed with Scat Porn but it is probably not true. Does he want to download it? Yes. Is it what he lives and breathes for? NO!
FTFY

Cannon Shell 05-05-2009 09:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cardus
I guess we are doing our "ABC's" tonight:

A) So if not buying all of the Derby starters, at what point can it be diminished? Isn't there is a certain point at which reasonable, intelligent people can conclude with some believability that a Derby has been "bought?" For me, I know that it is not 20.
B) I need a refresher: how many of the Godolphin starters have not been prepared in Dubai? Am I wrong, but haven't Godolphin started all of its Derby starters in Dubai? Shake Mo has a program, and he is going to stick to it.
C) It's not myopic if we are not considering how much Godolphin spends to win the Derby. Again, it's back to the "Yankees Syndrome." For instance, how much of a genius was Ahmed Salman for buying War Emblem in April? That is only one example, but it serves the point.
If you cant see by now that it is pretty much impossible to buy the Derby there is nothing that I can say to make you not believe that. They could have bought IWR and FF the day before the race and still not hit the board let alone win. There is a certain amount of luck needed to win the Derby and you cant buy that. It would be almost impossible to diminish winning the Derby.

Obviously Sheik Mo's plan takes preference over winning. He may be obsessed with winning 'his' way but again i doubt that he is devastated over another loss.

Again what difference does it make how much one spends? Did Thunder Gulch's win feel like it was bought? Coolmore spends a whole lot more than anyone else not from Dubai. Are the Phipps laughable because they have never won the Derby despite having the best American broodmare band over the last 40 years?

So the whole theory is that if they win it is diminished because they spend so much but if they dont win they are assholes? Maybe they arent a warm, fuzzy story but the fact they havent won shows the challenge of the sport and why it attracts so many diverse people from all walks of life. Jesus i sound like a freakin liberal...

The Indomitable DrugS 05-05-2009 09:32 PM
Cannon and myself will be going to Georgia to campaign for Neal Horsley very shortly.

Cannon Shell 05-05-2009 09:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cardus
Like Lord Helmet said (Spaceballs): "I can't believe you man, you fell for the oldest trick in the book!"
May the Schwartz be with you

Cannon Shell 05-05-2009 09:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS
Cannon and myself will be going to Georgia to campaign for Neal Horsley very shortly.
Yeah but I'm leaving my horses and mules home...

Cannon Shell 05-05-2009 09:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cardus
If his plan obviously takes precedence over winning to you, don't you think that it should have been obvious to him?

No.

Yet again, that has been the mantra against the Yankees, for great instance, over the last 12 years. I think that belief has taken a strong root, and as a Yankee fan, I can't dismiss it.
Hank Stienbrenner did once run Kinsman farm.

Danzig 05-05-2009 10:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
Yeah but I'm leaving my horses and mules home...

don't forget to say thanks, but no thanks, if he should offer watermelon for dessert.

tector 05-05-2009 11:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NTamm1215
I don't think Godolphin discloses private purchase prices but just this year they paid out a fortune between Vineyard Haven, Desert Party, and Regal Ransom. Midshipman, who they got in the purchase from Stonerside, cannot be quantified.
According to this:

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/o...cky_Derby_run/,

Vineyard Haven alone cost $12 million.

And no one here seems to comprehend that entire focus of Team Dubai's dirt breeding and training operation is to win the Derby--anything else that falls out of the process is gravy. We are talking about hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars over the past decade or so.

Here's an interesting flashback:

http://www.nydailynews.com/archives/...from_duba.html

And here we get the update:

http://www.newsvine.com/_news/2009/0...-1st-derby-win

Quote:
Yet all the setbacks through the years have done little to change the way Sheik Mohammed runs his program. His best 3-year-olds will spend the winters in Dubai. That's it.

"He's a very, very competitive man and if somebody told him he couldn't do it from Dubai, well, he is going to do it from Dubai," said trainer Eoin Harty, who guided Desert Party as a 2-year-old before he was moved to Godolphin.

Like the Yankees, Sheik Mohammed spares no expense in search of a championship.

Godolphin horses are superstars in Dubai and well taken care of at the stable's state-of-the-art training facility. Life is just as good on the road. Desert Party and Regal Ransom traveled to Churchill Downs in their own planes and have their every step closely monitored by an attentive staff and a nation glued to a popular 24-hour racing channel.

Ferguson has spent more than $281 million on over 300 yearlings at the Keeneland September sale in the last 10 years. It hasn't led to a Derby win but that doesn't mean Sheik Mohammed is going to keep his wallet closed when he sees a horse he likes.

The spending spree has slowed recently, but not because of the economic downturn. All that buying has helped Sheik Mohammed build an impressive collection of stallions and broodmares, and the hope is one day he'll be able to breed a winner without having to buy one.

tector 05-05-2009 11:11 PM
By the way, am I the only one who remembers this book?

http://www.amazon.com/Desert-Derby-B...1582849&sr=1-1

Apparently.

SniperSB23 05-06-2009 12:06 AM
I guess I'm alone in that I hate Sheikh Mo, hate Pletcher, but love what Sheikh Hamdan has done for the game. And even after seeing the Derby I still believe that anyone betting a Pletcher horse not named Dunkirk was far more foolish than anyone betting a Dubai horse. As was anyone betting the winner.

Indian Charlie 05-06-2009 01:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS
FTFY

Yeah, at least my computer doesn't have 2500 viruses and have some robotic sounding German chick screaming at me when I boot up.

How many times must I repeat myself. NO MORE PORN SITES!

And when it happens yet again in another week don't go blaming the software I told you to use that successfully cleaned it up the last time.

To prevent these future 'between the keyboard and chair' errors:

1. Stop going to your fetish porn sites.
2. Learn to use bit torrents. Maybe Pants here can explain how.

MisterB 05-06-2009 04:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tector
You have to be kidding, mac.

If I gave Pletcher half the money these drape-wearing dopes have squandered on their Derby ambitions over the past decade, he'd have won at least 3 or 4 Derbies by now, if only inadvertantly
Are you serious?? This has to be the quote of the decade:D

Dunbar 05-06-2009 09:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
If you cant see by now that it is pretty much impossible to buy the Derby there is nothing that I can say to make you not believe that. They could have bought IWR and FF the day before the race and still not hit the board let alone win. There is a certain amount of luck needed to win the Derby and you cant buy that. It would be almost impossible to diminish winning the Derby.

Obviously Sheik Mo's plan takes preference over winning. He may be obsessed with winning 'his' way but again i doubt that he is devastated over another loss.

Again what difference does it make how much one spends? Did Thunder Gulch's win feel like it was bought? Coolmore spends a whole lot more than anyone else not from Dubai. Are the Phipps laughable because they have never won the Derby despite having the best American broodmare band over the last 40 years?

So the whole theory is that if they win it is diminished because they spend so much but if they dont win they are assholes? Maybe they arent a warm, fuzzy story but the fact they havent won shows the challenge of the sport and why it attracts so many diverse people from all walks of life. Jesus i sound like a freakin liberal...
Too funny!

--Dunbar

Kasept 05-06-2009 09:07 AM
Thread of the Year nominee...

Coach Pants 05-06-2009 09:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Indian Charlie
Yeah, at least my computer doesn't have 2500 viruses and have some robotic sounding German chick screaming at me when I boot up.

How many times must I repeat myself. NO MORE PORN SITES!

And when it happens yet again in another week don't go blaming the software I told you to use that successfully cleaned it up the last time.

To prevent these future 'between the keyboard and chair' errors:

1. Stop going to your fetish porn sites.
2. Learn to use bit torrents. Maybe Pants here can explain how.
He'd f.uck that up too and ruin it for the rest of us.

King Glorious 05-06-2009 09:59 AM
I still say that if you have $5 in you pocket and you offer $1 for a candy bar.......and I have $1000 in my pocket and offer $5 for that same candy bar.......you offer was a bigger offer than mine because it was a higher percentage of what you actually have. I was just offering up pocket change. You were offering up a significant amount of all you had. That's the way I look at their purchases. You may look at the amount and think they are spending way too much. I look at it and say they are spending relatively nothing for them.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:16 AM.
Page 2 of 3 < 1 2 3 >
Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.