I'm confused. You say that the west coast horses are superior this year, but then reneg and then say that the horse doesn't have to win the derby. Aren't we talking about the derby? Then what's your point? Serious question: is English your first language?

I'm beginning to think PG had an internet sex change.

The true shocker of the day... the buffet in the Equestris Room was outstanding today.

But not nearly as good as the Oxtail I had from the West Indian Food stand.

You're a brave man.

Are you kidding me? The best food in the place.....no doubt.

Jones said last year that FF was the most talented 2yo he had ever trained. It was just a matter of FF getting his mind into the game.

Love the beef patties there.

Oxtail... you're more exotic than I.

I just had the best egg noodles I've ever made.


on an unrelated note, what has Pioneerof ever done to suggest he might belong in the Kentucky Derby ?

btw is gangsta

Why don't you be true to your word, just once, and leave me on ignore.

Not for my benefit, of course, but for your own.

:tro:

No doubt. But what exactly do we base tossing POLY horses on? This has not really been address here (or anywhere).

Wouldn't I be in a position to make a better decision concerning those horses that have already run on dirt?

It would, of course, be nice to be able to always make decisions on what we have seen, but that isn't always the case, and in this year's Derby, if you are betting, you have to make a decision on Pioneer of the Nile, as he is one of the favorites. Here's what we have.....a horse that ran fairly well in his debut on the turf, and then ran slowly in a bunch of synthetic turf races, while earning a reputation based on the names of the races he ran in and not on his actual on track performances. Could he improve on the dirt? Of course, but he likely won't ( as few horses are proficient on all surfaces ), and at the odds he will be, based on how he has performed, he is a good horse to bet against.

i'm basing it on the belief that most horses aren't dual surface horses. a few are-barbaro and big brown handled turf and dirt with aplomb, while curlin the great (:rolleyes: ) for example did not. i'm inclined to go with a horse who has exhibited where he is at his best.

horses can hit the board on the one, but translate board hits to wins on their best surface.. i want revenge is one example, street sense is another. he beat hard spun in ky, but HS turned the tables at turfway.

exactly


It's possible that he will be as good as his odds on dirt, but not very probable.

Let's be more precise. I don't indulge in speed figures but from what I've read here POLY races grade out slower. I don't know if CJ (or someone else) has a POLY to DIRT conversion worked out. If this is the case, and POTN's races are 'historically' SLOWER then my point is not a makeable one. But, 'slower in relation to what'? is my question otherwise. All I know is that this horse has finished ahead of all the horses its faced in CALI. Some of them have done nicely elsewhere.

Tell you this much, and I am NOT a FAN of this horse. I'd be more comfortable tossing Quality Road and Friesan Fire (and I will). I know they can't win without perfect trips. I don't know what this horse can do on the dirt, however.

we're all in the same boat on that score.

Oxtails are exotic?

Have people never been to anything better than Arby's?

Come on, I love Arby's.

Are you from Erie too?

I agree. It's pretty sad.

It is sad, really.

It's just meat from the tail of a steer. Very tender and delicious.

You gotta try different foods. Who knows, you might like it.

Spoken like a true bettor

You really think you will get 7-1?

I wouldn't be all that surprised if he is 7/1.

The Derby betting can be kind of weird though ... as every year it seems like one or two horses get hit with an unexpected flood of money. Take a look at Stephen Got Even or the absurd Dollar Bill for examples.

that implies that Hard Spun beat Street Sense at Turfway.

at Turfway... wow

So, no one is talking about Hold Me Back

??


"The third time was the charm for Hard Spun, who finally defeated Street Sense when he won the Sept. 29 Kentucky Cup Classic Stakes (gr. II) at Turfway Park by 11¼4 lengths."

Erie is to America what Paris is to Europe.

oh, I was thinking The Lane's End prep

Really? The Germans have overrun Erie twice too?

or maybe erie would immediately surrender if invaded...

Some of the girls around here don't seem to want to shave their armpits.

How about adding Go Between to that list as well.
Student Council, too?

Papa Clem's victory recalled visions of Gayego last year in an awful field.
And the Bluegrass is quickly becoming a joke. General Quarters will be no more of a factor on Derby day and beyond than the last two winners of that race (Monba and Dominican).

I agree I can see him going off as the probable 4th pick in the derby if QR goes and may even slip to the 5th pick if Dunkirk gets in. 5th choice out of 20 pool horses is not bad. Regardless if you took him in the Day 3 pool you could have had 11-1 on him.

POTN has battled Gomez the last two and still managed to win. He may not like the dirt or the distance but he certainly has no shot if he is rank. I'd say let him run and hope for the best.

His last race was not visually impressive, nor was it impressive from a beyer standpoint (96). The call here for a horseplayer if you are considering him for the derby is will he be better on traditional dirt than on syth or turf. He's by Empire Maker not unlike David Caroll's Acoma, she eventually had to prove the same questions by winning on turf, syth, and then dirt. But no one knows absolutely if he will be good enough. Like someone said in this thread alot is said about synth horses going backward on dirt, what about the flip side synth horses improving on dirt?